God and Guns: The Bible's Perspective on Personal Ownership and Use of Weapons, and Related Matters
(c) 1996, 1997 David C. Treibs, firstname.lastname@example.org
This page contains verse by verse commentary for Ezekiel 16 - John 8, detailing what the Bible says about owning and using guns.
40 They shall also bring up a company against thee, and
they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through
with their swords.
their personal swords?
49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom,
pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in
her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the
hand of the poor and needy.
Wonder if this could be interpreted to mean literally strengthen and
enable the poor with more than just physical needs, perhaps also
strengthen and enable them against oppressors and the evil--I think this
is commanded elsewhere, perhaps here also.
7 And hath not oppressed any, [but] hath restored to the
debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given
his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a
12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by
violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up
his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,
a. harms the weak
b. turns from God to something else
Both these are evil and both must be corrected--those who want to arm
the poor and help them economically by doing away with socialism but who
don't include repentence and humility toward God are not going to
Repentence and defense: God's medicine for a sick nation.
Two strong pills for a sick and dying nation
(Hard to swallow for some).
18 [As for] his father, because he cruelly oppressed,
spoiled his brother by violence, and did [that] which [is]
not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his
Spoiling (the innocent and helpless) by violence is a sin, an evil, an
injustice, a call for God's judgment. This is one of the sins we must stand
against, it is one of the evils that is absolutely wrong and over which
innocence and right has the God given right to triumph over, and which
we have an _obligation_ to ensure happens.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?
saith the Lord GOD: [and] not that he should return from his
ways, and live?
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his
transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live,
he shall not die.
30. Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every
one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and
turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity
shall not be your ruin.
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth,
saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn [yourselves], and live
The purpose of God's punishment is repentance.
26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they
caused to pass through [the fire] all that openeth the womb,
that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might
know that I [am] the LORD.
One way God judges is to let us sin in ways that destroys us--in this
case he let them destroy their children so their productivity and
populace and such were destroyed--just like now God is allowing us to
destroy ourselves by crime and drugs and alcohol and violence and
We let criminals loose so they can prey upon us, we send the children to
government schools so they can be brainwashed by secular humanists and
evolutionists and then become evil and corrupt and prey upon society, we
disarm the righteous so they become a prey.
3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD;
Behold, I [am] against thee, and will draw forth my sword
out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous
and the wicked.
4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous
and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his
sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:
The righteous can't just sit around and say, if there be 10 righteous in the
city, I don't have anything to worry about. There are many times when the
righteous will suffer at least as much as the wicked.
Why ? Maybe because the righteous had lost their savor and were good for
nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot (George Orwell's boot
in the face) of men.
9 Son of man, prophesy, and say, Thus saith the LORD; Say,
A sword, a sword is sharpened, and also furbished:
10 It is sharpened to make a sore slaughter; it is
furbished that it may glitter: should we then make mirth? it
contemneth the rod of my son, [as] every tree.
11 And he hath given it to be furbished, that it may be
handled: this sword is sharpened, and it is furbished, to
give it into the hand of the slayer.
12 Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my
people, it [shall be] upon all the princes of Israel:
terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people:
smite therefore upon [thy] thigh.
The slayer might also be a criminal--remember when every man did what
was right in his own eyes? The highways could not be traveled because of
12 The terror of the sword? Isn't crime one of the big concerns in
15 I have set the point of the sword against all their
gates, that [their] heart may faint, and [their] ruins be
multiplied: ah! [it is] made bright, [it is] wrapped up for
Everywhere you turn, violence, crime, etc.
31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will
blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee
into the hand of brutish men, [and] skilful to destroy.
Clinton is skillful to destroy us in many ways--economically,--nation,
businesses, and individuals, morally, with crime, by disarming us, with
welfare, so everyone is like the CA rioters--criminals demanding stuff,
with witchcraft (Hillary), by tyranny--the feds are murderers, our put
use of our land.
The UN and foreign gov't are skillful to destroy our sovereignty and
take us citizens out for trials.
Criminals and scam makers and the mafia are skillful to destroy.
"brutish" Stupid, violent, and coarse?
6 Behold, the princes of Israel, every one were in thee to
their power to shed blood.
A gov't of murderers. Maybe they also machine-gunned boys in the back,
blew women's heads off, teargassed children for 6 hours and said it was
to help them, and then burned them up to save them from child abuse.
7 In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the
midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the
stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the
Vex fatherless by taxes, gun control, put property laws, environmental
and land and business regulations, fear, let the criminals loose so they
can prey upon them, etc.
29 The people of the land have used oppression, and
exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea,
they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.
Oppress poor, needy, stranger.
The poor, needy, and strangers suffer.
30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up
the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that
I should not destroy it: but I found none.
No one to stand in the gap for all this.
I guess Ezekiel and the prophets weren't enough. In the previous verses
he compared the lying prophets to those who would not stand in the
gap--maybe he wanted someone to turn the nation around, but even those
who were trying could not turn the nation around, and so there was no
one to stand in the gap.
31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them;
I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own
way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.
Therefore destroy the nation--we must stand in the gap for our nation
spiritually also and must reverse the evils of v. 29 and all the other
listed sins (v.6-12,26-29)--one way to help the poor and needy is enable
them to not be poor (ie, capitalism), and to enable them to resist
murder and oppressors, ie arm them, or at least allow them to arm
Also, v.31--evil becomes its own punishment, because the natural results
of sin begin destroying everyone and everything, even the innocent.
47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and
dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons
and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.
21 Speak unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord
GOD; Behold, I will profane my sanctuary, the excellency of
your strength, the desire of your eyes, and that which your
soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have
left shall fall by the sword.
The children will die by the sword--destruction of the innocent.
Whatever the nation considers sacred and beautiful, that will God
destroy. When you see everything sacred and beloved being destroyed and
profained, consider why. Loss of children is another sign--abortion,
public schools, etc.
25 Also, thou son of man, [shall it] not [be] in the day
when I take from them their strength, the joy of their
glory, the desire of their eyes, and that whereupon they set
their minds, their sons and their daughters,
Children are all these things.
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the
terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords
against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled
the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned:
therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of
God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the
midst of the stones of fire.
God is speaking about the devil, King of Tyrus--he is full of violence,
but God is a man of war. Remember also the "violent man" of David, it
was not that he used violence, but that he did evil things with the
force he used.
23 For I will send into her pestilence, and blood into her
streets; and the wounded shall be judged in the midst of her
by the sword upon her on every side; and they shall know
that I [am] the LORD.
Judged by the sword.
6 And all the inhabitants of Egypt shall know that I [am]
the LORD, because they have been a staff of reed to the
house of Israel.
7 When they took hold of thee by thy hand, thou didst
break, and rend all their shoulder: and when they leaned
upon thee, thou brakest, and madest all their loins to be at
8. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring
a sword upon thee, and cut off man and beast out of thee.
Israel, God's people, depended on Egypt, but Egypt was too weak, and
didn't deliver God's people, therefore God will destroy Egypt. When
God's people depend on someone, they better be strong, or God will be
unhappy with them. I don't know what case this was, but usually Israel
hoped Egypt would deliver them from Babylon, which, by the way, was
God's punisher for Israel's sins (Is 36:6, Jeremiah 37:5,7,11).
11 He and his people with him, the terrible of the
nations, shall be brought to destroy the land: and they
shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land
with the slain.
6 Or they might have supported Israel and made it possible for them to
Israel should have depended on God, but didn't--they depended on
people--who will eventually fail you, but God never fails--and we fail
greatly when our trust isn't in him. The people of Heb 11 are commended
for their faith and trust in God.
The enemy will prevail with their weapons, but God never says disarm, the
enemy or otherwise, he says repent.
22 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am]
against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and will break his arms, the
strong, and that which was broken; and I will cause the
sword to fall out of his hand.
God is going to destroy Egypt (been talking about it for awhile) by
knocking the sword out of his hand, he won't be able to fight. Maybe the
same for USA--God is judging us by knocking the sword out of our hands.
We try to protect ourselves and we fail. We try to defend ourselves from
crime and we are disarmed and arrested and sent to prison for daring to
defend ourselves. 1st we need to repent, 2nd we need to throw out the
wicked who are making things this way and turn our nation around.
24 And I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon,
and put my sword in his hand: but I will break Pharaoh's
arms, and he shall groan before him with the groanings of a
deadly wounded [man].
Strengthen the arms--give him victory (it says following is a con't of
v.22 but I think I meant v.24) against the criminals and gov't and (v.24)
by breaking our arms--the strength and ability to use the sword, to
resist the evil coming upon our nation, etc. When we see this happening
we must seek God, repent, pray, etc, not just figure we need to fight
harder (although that's also necessary). Like George Washington.
27 And they shall not lie with the mighty [that are]
fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell
with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords
under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their
bones, though [they were] the terror of the mighty in the
land of the living.
Apparently they buried the warriors with their personal weapons, as if they
were part of their most cherished personal effects, as if they weren't owned
by anyone else. That's a nice way to say they owned the weapons they used.
Their swords are different from their iniquities. The swords will be on
their heads, but the iniquities on their bones. A weapon does not equal
sin and is not sinful.
1. Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say
unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people
of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for
3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow
the trumpet, and warn the people;
4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and
taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away,
his blood shall be upon his own head.
5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning;
his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning
shall deliver his soul.
6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the
trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come,
and take [any] person from among them, he is taken away in
his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's
2. When God's judgment falls on the land and he sends a sword--it is
because of his judgment that the sword comes, the watchman is still
responsible to do his part to warn the people so they can escape or
prepare to fight or shut the gates.
The watchman can't say, it's God's will that the people be destroyed,
because this sword is divinely sent from God, and I don't want to have a
part in resisting God's will and God's judgment. Therefore I'm not going
to warn the people for that reason, and because it wouldn't do any good
anyway since the sword is from God and no one can successfully resist
2. "set him for a watchman" Defensive action against God's judgment.
4. Additionally, the people have a responsibility to work to save their
lives, once they know the sword is coming. They can't say, this sword is
God's judgment against our nation, and therefore I won't do anything to
resist God's will and judgment by helping himself or others. Could also
say can't warn others for the same reasoning--resisting God's judgment.
6. He is taken in his iniquity--he is destroyed because of his sin, but
that is no excuse for not protecting him from destruction. We are
required to protect even those who are being destroyed because of their
sins. However, we can't confuse this with the death penalty or
self-defense, we can't protect them by letting them harm us and not
using violence to stop them.
God will protect me if I'm innocent and not sinful. I doubt it. The
Bible says if you know of the evil and don't deliver yourself, 1. the
sword will kill you, and 2. it will by your fault (your blood will be on
your head). Also, the simple pass on and are punished.
When God Judges a land and brings a sword, if the watchman does not warn the
people, God will hold him responsible, even though the attack was from God and
was to judge the people for their sin. If the watchman fails to protect the
people, God will punish him. They were commanded to help the people
evade the enemy, even though God sent the enemy, and they were commanded
to help the people stay alive even though God wanted them dead.
God will punish those who have the ability (are able...can) defend the
innocent (or even sinners) but don't. He will punish them for the
innocent who are destroyed who would have had more of a chance to live,
but didn't. It won't be because he didn't save them, because they might
have died anyway, but at least he gave them a chance, and if they try to
defend themselves if you augment their ability to defend themselves
(Esther) or even just escape God will pleased with you even if they
11 Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have
no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked
turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil
ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Not that the wicked be disarmed (of course, it also doesn't say they
shall go to prison or be put to death, etc--don't forget that--but it
does say that elsewhere, and it doesn't say anywhere that the wicked
should be disarmed).
There are obviously principles involved in here, because first he talks
about the responsibility of the watchman, and then he says these same
principles apply to the prophet Ezekiel.
This also demonstrates the purpose of God's punishment, the sword,
famine, and pestilence, violence in the land, etc--it is to return the
nation to God and to bring repentence.
21. And it came to pass in the twelfth year of our
captivity, in the tenth [month], in the fifth [day] of the
month, [that] one that had escaped out of Jerusalem came
unto me, saying, The city is smitten.
This Godly and righteous man was part of those captured by the enemy,
even though the captivity was God's judgment for Israel's sin, and
Ezekiel hadn't sinned, or at least had not contributed to the national
sin that brought on the destruction and judgment. The righteous man was
suffering God's judgment even though he was innocent. The righteous do
suffer for the sins of the wicked (that is one of major characteristics
of sin--it destroys the innocent, and of course, the righteous suffer
although you might say he didn't suffer the direct divine judgment, just
the harvest of the nation for their sins--since HE'S PART OF THE
4 I will lay thy cities waste, and thou shalt be desolate,
and thou shalt know that I [am] the LORD.
5 Because thou hast had a perpetual hatred, and hast shed
[the blood of] the children of Israel by the force of the
sword in the time of their calamity, in the time [that
their] iniquity [had] an end:
Not innocent, not invulnerable--if not innocent, then they are
committing God-forbidden evil against the innocent and helpless and
God's people, and since that's the case, we are obligated to stop them.
It is an act of sin and evil to carry out God's judgment against his
people (what if they are abortionists?) or against the innocent or when
there is no God-authorized reason for killing. Since it is an act of
sin, we must, as we are obligated to in the non-God's-judgment (we have
to defend even when the people are being destroyed because of God's
judgment, and how much more so when it is not God's judgment. Actually
that's not a good statement, because we have to defend the same no
matter what the case.) category of defending those who need it, defend
those who are suffering, as the watchman must do his part to protect, or
he is guilty, so it is with us.
Carrying out God's judgment against his people is a sin, and it also is
decidedly a sin to stand by while God's people are being destroyed for
sin, as those who stood by in the OT, and God judged them for it.
6 Therefore, [as] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will
prepare thee unto blood, and blood shall pursue thee: sith
thou hast not hated blood, even blood shall pursue thee.
If you do not hate blood, it will pursue you. In this case it refers to
those shedding the blood (combined with the verses saying we must not
hold back when it's in our hand to do good and defend the good, we might
be able to say if we do not hate blood (the innocent dying) to the point
that we stop it, then blood will pursue us. It's certainly true in the
abortion/euthanasia area that what we allow will come back to haunt us
through forced AB, us being euthanized, etc.
21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all
my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be
against his brother.
It is a sign of wickedness when a nation's sword turns against itself. You
know a nation is full of sin when this happens.
3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will
cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
God's method of destroying them is not to disarm them but to render
their weapons useless (remember that one of God's judgments, as the
Philistines did to Israel, is to disarm them before their enemies so
they cannot stand or resist), as he did to Israel when they were
resisting the enemy that God had sent to judge them and punish
them--figure out how this squares with 35:4-5 if God's judgment is upon
us and we resist the enemy's sword, will we have our weapons knocked out
of our hands? Perhaps, but perhaps if we couple it with repentance, he
will not, or perhaps we will be like Josiah and be killed in battle so
we don't see the destruction, or perhaps we will be the vehicle God uses
to give our people a small amount of deliverance and relief, as he did
to Israel several times with various saviors and mighty men.
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field,
neither cut down [any] out of the forests; for they shall
burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that
spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord
Israel will spoil those that spoiled them when God socks Gog and Magog
on the mountains of Israel, enabling the spoiled, defiled, helpless, etc
to protect themselves; and commands to rescue and strengthen them.
One of God's blessings is to spoil the enemy, to spoil those who spoiled
you (Amos)--if it is a blessing of God, it couldn't be evil. Note: one
of the things that always happens when people spoil their enemies, they
take a good portion of the loot for themselves, including the weapons
they find, and this is one way individuals obtain the best and most
modern, if perhaps somewhat dinted, weapons available, probably
including swords, spears, shields, chariots (tanks), engines of war
(stone hurlers, ie artillery, missiles), certainly including weapons
that are larger than borne weapons (artillery, ships, squad, batallion,
platoon weapons), etc.
1. In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the
beginning of the year, in the tenth [day] of the month, in
the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the
selfsame day the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought
The righteous suffer with the wicked--his city and temple were
destroyed, perhaps it was his birthplace and homeland, his country was
attacked, he was a captive, perhaps his brothers or sisters or parents
were harmed or killed.
He had to stand by while the women were raped, the men killed, their
children terrified and killed and abused and their brains dashed out.
Then he had to hear their groans and misery afterward, to see the women
pregnant, grieving over their lost husbands, brothers, children, wives,
9. Thus saith the Lord GOD; Let it suffice you, O princes
of Israel: remove violence and spoil, and execute judgment
and justice, take away your exactions from my people, saith
the Lord GOD.
He is telling them, I think, to stop being violent (the princes), etc.
He is also possibly telling them to stop it from happening--ie, protect
those who are under their authority.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints,
and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given
to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the
saints possessed the kingdom.
25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to
change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand
until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Made war with the saints and prevailed, harmed, killed, captured them.
The saints are not immune from war or from being harmed by it, and the
devil does not always lose when he comes against God's people.
The it's-the-end-times-so-let's-not-even-try crowd would say we can't
resist evil because we will lose anyway and so why try; they fail to see
that we are still obligated to defend our families (or be worse than in
infidel), the innocent (or be guilty of innocent blood), our nation (or
be like the lying priests who failed to stand in the gap), etc, and we
are commanded to occupy until he returns and be salt and light.
Whenever this time is we will know because the devil will kill us, then
we will go to heaven and God will tell us. I doubt if even the devil
knows when it will be the end time, because every day almost since
creation he has had his man ready, but God has always shot him down, and
so the devil never quite knows, maybe, who will be the one God allows to
do the wrong thing. Down here we are obligated to resist. We are not
excused from defending the innocent just because it's the devil's turn
to win. It doesn't say the saints gave up. It says the devil won.
Besides, there have been many times since this prophecy was given
(several thousand BC, perhaps?) that Christians were being destroyed,
and they didn't know if it was the end or not, but the followed God's
commands to rescue the innocent or warn the others (watchman), and
escape or whatever they did.
7 O Lord, righteousness [belongeth] unto thee, but unto us
confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and
to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, [that
are] near, and [that are] far off, through all the countries
whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass
that they have trespassed against thee.
8 O Lord, to us [belongeth] confusion of face, to our
kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have
sinned against thee.
Confusion because of trespasses and sins.
10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God,
to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants
11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by
departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the
curse is poured upon us, and the oath that [is] written in
the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned
12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against
us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon
us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been
done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.
The nation sinned and rejected God, therefore the curse; the great evil
is because of sin.
Destruction comes from sin and unrepentence, not from weapons or the
lack of them. That doesn't mean you can ignore all the verses on
self-defense, preparedness, protecting the innocent, fighting the enemy,
etc. It just shows the root cause.
Also, just because you are armed to the teeth doesn't mean that will
help you defend the innocent, any more than having no weapons means you
cannot or will not be able to defend the innocent. In the USA, weapons
don't really help us defend the unborn. For the most part, we have to do
that by some means besides weapons.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will
save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by
bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by
An example of when God does it himself without using anything or anyone
God is admitting he uses these methods (ie, sword, battle, horses,
horsemen) at times, but in this instance he will not use those
Don't trust in weapons or tactics or numbers, but in God alone.
Remember tat trusting, ie, faith in God isn't the same as leaving it up
to him. We have to do our part.
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with
the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and
[with] the creeping things of the ground: and I will break
the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and
will make them to lie down safely.
God is the only one able to make us safe by stopping weapons.
When animals are at peace with each other and don't eat each other and
don't fight, etc, then we can figure maybe there will also be peace
1. Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for
the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the
land, because [there is] no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge
of God in the land.
2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and
committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth
God is angry when the land is full of blood, and when there is no
knowledge of Him in the land.
In this case, killing is included with swearing, lying, stealing, etc,
so we know it is violence for violence sake, and for selfish ends, it is
not the right kind.
Blood toucheth blood lets us know this is innocent blood, and so it is
not the good people exercising self-defense and killing the bad guys.
This is where you have to make a distinction between between the context
or list demonstrating that something is always wrong, verses the context
demonstrating that only the particular type being discussed is wrong but
not all of it is always wrong, and the context tells us what which type,
good or bad, is being discussed.
1. When I would have healed Israel, then the iniquity of
Ephraim was discovered, and the wickedness of Samaria: for
they commit falsehood; and the thief cometh in, [and] the
troop of robbers spoileth without.
2 And they consider not in their hearts [that] I remember
all their wickedness: now their own doings have beset them
about; they are before my face.
The thieves and robbers are their own doings besetting them--ie, the
natural consequences of their sins.
Instead of organizing into groups or associations to defend the nation
and the innocent and their neighborhoods, they have organized into
groups to do evil.
15 Though I have bound [and] strengthened their arms, yet
do they imagine mischief against me.
No repentance, what else does it mean?
"bound" means chastened
DESTRUCTION words to consider looking up in relation to violence and
VIOLENCE force, etc
14 For Israel hath forgotten his Maker, and buildeth
temples; and Judah hath multiplied fenced cities: but I will
send a fire upon his cities, and it shall devour the palaces
Those who trust in religion or military might but not the Lord will be
The major and minor prophets have a central theme of bringing God's
people back to repentence.
For those pious religious folks who disdain arms and might, they should
consider this--that religious sites aren't any better, along with
religious service by the priests and religious patronage by the people.
Anyone who says weapons are no good can also add religious service and
churches to the list as being useless without God--and if someone should
twist this or one of the other verses to mean, since it's not going to
help them (even though they build armed cities), that means it's no
good, or else they might say the only thing really necessary is
repentence, and nothing else is really all that important, and you can
do away with all the other, and it shouldn't be part of doing what's
right, and therefore it is useless to keep them around, and they are not
part of God's plan, and maybe even it would be beneficial to rid society
of them, then we can turn around and say the same about churches and
everything related to religious service, based on this verse. Religious
service does not equal turning to God, any more than weapons do, but
that doesn't mean we should eliminate one or the other--it just means we
need our hearts right for either of these to have meaning, and for God
to bless them--we must remember our Maker.
8 The watchman of Ephraim [was] with my God: [but] the
prophet [is] a snare of a fowler in all his ways, [and]
hatred in the house of his God.
The watchman was godly, but the prophet was not ??
Look up cross references to watchman, Ephraim, and see if you can figure
out what this means.
The non-religious-dutied person was more Godly in that he carried out
his God-given responsibility better than did the prophet who supposedly
was supposed to be closer to God than anyone else/ if so, we can derive
that non-religious duty can still be service to God in a very real
sense. And in fact, duties related to war, violence, fighting, and
weapons can be Godly, pleasing to God, and can enable a person to be in
communion with God to some extent the same way that a prophet is in
communion with God because of his position.
13 Ye have plowed wickedness, ye have reaped iniquity; ye
have eaten the fruit of lies: because thou didst trust in
thy way, in the multitude of thy mighty men.
Same as Hosea 8:14.
Reap what is sown--natural consequences, and trusted mighty men instead
of God, therefore will lose the battle.
He didn't say it was wrong to have mighty men or strength, he said they
should have trusted in God instead of them.
4 Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and
thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour
God is the only one who saves from anything, so even if all you do is
give people food to save them from starving, it's still God who does the
saving, same with anything else.
16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled
against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants
shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall
be ripped up.
Rebelling against God brings the sword and destruction of the innocent,
weak, children, etc.
When destruction comes, it's time to check your heart condition to see
if you're right with God, or if you as in individual and a/or a nation
are full of wickedness. If the innocent are being destroyed, there's a
pretty good chance something is really wrong with lots of hearts.
12. Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye [even] to
me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping,
and with mourning:
13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn
unto the LORD your God: for he [is] gracious and merciful,
slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of
14 Who knoweth [if] he will return and repent, and leave a
blessing behind him; [even] a meat offering and a drink
offering unto the LORD your God?
Repent and God might turn back the evil. He's under no obligation to do
so, because it is the consequence of our evil, but he might be merciful
and turn it back for his mercy's sake (certainly not because we deserve
it), and we should approach him with that attitude: we plead for mercy,
even though our sins require judgment and destruction.
The purpose of the destruction is repentence. That doesn't mean you
can't stop it or you are preventing repentence. We are still obligated
to be a watchman, to deliver those slated to die, etc.
Sometimes also the wages and penalty of sin is death and destruction,
and God is giving us the penalty for what we have done.
10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks
into spears: let the weak say, I [am] strong.
19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a
desolate wilderness, for the violence [against] the children
of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their
When the Egyptians killed the Israelites as a judgment of God, they
destroyed the innocent. They also destroyed those who were not innocent,
but whom they had no reason to destroy. When a nation is under divine
judgment there are still many innocent people in it, and they, too will
be destroyed, or it could be saying most of them were innocent, to some
extent, even though they had sinned. IF, even in God's judgment against
a nation, the innocent are destroyed, we are not any less required to
defend the innocent, sound the warning so they can escape, etc. No one
can say, because it is God's judgment, we cannot resist, either
passively or actively, remember those who didn't help Israel when they
were being judged and God punished them for it. Just don't over do it and
say no one who is guilty should die, because obviously that contradicts
the law, etc. see also Jeremiah 49:17 and Obadiah 10.
One result of the shedding of innocent blood and violence against the
good is a desolate nation.
13 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of the
children of Ammon, and for four, I will not turn away [the
punishment] thereof; because they have ripped up the women
with child of Gilead, that they might enlarge their border:
The innocent are destroyed by the wicked.
When the innocent and righteous are destroyed, it brings God's wrath and
destruction (which brings on more destruction of the innocent and
righteous). Therefore, to save our nation and ourselves and our families
and our houses we must stop the destruction by the wicked. And we must
bring our nation to repentence. We must be in power, be wise, be armed,
and fight. See Amos 2:6.
6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel,
and for four, I will not turn away [the punishment] thereof;
because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for
a pair of shoes;
The righteous and the poor suffer at the hand of the wicked.
See Amos 1:13.
12 But ye gave the Nazarites wine to drink; and commanded
the prophets, saying, Prophesy not.
13 Behold, I am pressed under you, as a cart is pressed
[that is] full of sheaves.
14 Therefore the flight shall perish from the swift, and
the strong shall not strengthen his force, neither shall the
mighty deliver himself:
15 Neither shall he stand that handleth the bow; and [he
that is] swift of foot shall not deliver [himself]: neither
shall he that rideth the horse deliver himself.
16 And [he that is] courageous among the mighty shall flee
away naked in that day, saith the LORD.
When God is against you, no amount of strength will help.
Loss of strength and ability to resist and loss of weapons and the
ability to use them effectively may be because God is against you
because you (nation, individual, or group (militia)) have done evil or
have not done righteously.
10 I have sent among you the pestilence after the manner
of Egypt: your young men have I slain with the sword, and
have taken away your horses; and I have made the stink of
your camps to come up unto your nostrils: yet have ye not
returned unto me, saith the LORD.
The purpose of the sword is repentance, not disarmament.
8 [Seek him] that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and
turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the
day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea,
and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD
[is] his name:
9 That strengtheneth the spoiled against the strong, so
that the spoiled shall come against the fortress.
He strengthens those who have been beaten and robbed by the enemy so
they can come against the enemy in his strongest position and clobber
him--doesn't say they'll just sit around and pray and trust God--it says
they will come against--attack--the fortress!!
This is a good verse to put next to verses like Amos 2:12-16 where he
says the strong won't be able to stand if you do evil or don't do right.
If God is on our side, even if we are all but few and wounded (Jer
37:10), it doesn't matter how weak we are, even if we have been spoiled
by the mighty evil, it is possible to win (although we won't know if God
will give us the victory, that's up to him, but we still have a duty to
11 Forasmuch therefore as your treading [is] upon the
poor, and ye take from him burdens of wheat: ye have built
houses of hewn stone, but ye shall not dwell in them; ye
have planted pleasant vineyards, but ye shall not drink wine
12 For I know your manifold transgressions and your mighty
sins: they afflict the just, they take a bribe, and they
turn aside the poor in the gate [from their right].
The just suffer from the wicked, and the poor.
11 "take...built...planted" Things that are done at the expense of
others will not stand or enjoy God's blessings--social programs that
take away others' money, etc.
14 Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the
LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have
15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish
judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts
will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
Hate evil--don't be comfortable with it and tolerate it--stomp it out of
existence! Fight against evil, and protect and forward the good! And
establish these in the gate, ie make that part of the law of the land
(destroy evil, forward good). The gate is the main place of traffic and
15 You have to do BOTH, you have to _establish_ judgment--put the right
people in power so there will be judgment! If we do this, God might be
merciful to our nation.
The gate was where the wise men sat who witnessed and legalized
transactions, etc (ie court, notary publics, etc). See how Ruth's
daughter-in-law had Boaz (?) go to the gate to make the deal for the
land and the woman.
21. I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell
in your solemn assemblies.
22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat
offerings, I will not accept [them]: neither will I regard
the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I
will not hear the melody of thy viols.
24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness
as a mighty stream.
God hated their religious deeds because they didn't couple them with
righteous action (and it probably wasn't genuine anyway, they weren't
doing it from the heart or for the right reasons)--to stop evil, to
defend the good, to help the poor, etc. In fact, they were probably the
ones "devouring widows houses and for a pretense make long prayers."
God is so sick of their sins that he doesn't want anything to do with
their religious ceremonies. He says, go and fill the land with
righteousness and judgment first. Perhaps people today should heed this,
instead of only hiding in their closets praying, they ought to go out and
fight against sin and the wicked.
1. Woe to them [that are] at ease in Zion, and trust in the
mountain of Samaria, [which are] named chief of the nations,
to whom the house of Israel came!
3 Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of
violence to come near;
5 That chant to the sound of the viol, [and] invent to
themselves instruments of musick, like David;
Woe to those who are at ease when it's time to do something because the
nation is afflicted (inaction in the face of need is a sin), and who
cause the seat of violence to come near, whatever that means. Perhaps
they were doing nothing to re-establish righteousness and justice.
Perhaps the seat is like the heart or the center or the place from where
violence emanates, which Jesus said is from the heart--so maybe they
caused evil and violent people to come near, ie they opened up the poor
and needy and innocent to these evil people, or they made it possible
for these evil people to exist or comfortably prey upon the good, etc.
3 Sin and spoil the nation but deny the consequences and the judgment to
come. All that sin working on the nation brings God's wrath, and brings
the natural consequences of sin, which includes "the seat of
13 Ye which rejoice in a thing of nought, which say, Have
we not taken to us horns by our own strength?
Don't say you have done it by your own strength.
4. Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make
the poor of the land to fail,
6 That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a
pair of shoes; [yea], and sell the refuse of the wheat?
Harm the poor.
TROOP (a military term to add to the list to search for.)
4 "buy the poor for silver" Do things to them so you can buy them for
money, or promises (politicians). Invade and disarm the Hatians (UN) and
then promise to protect them if they will be docile slaves.
"sell the refuse of the wheat" Sell junk as something good to those in
need of good, not the junk you sold them. Maybe includes selling ideas
that are no good and only end up harming--social security harms the old,
welfare harms the poor, gun control harms the defenseless.
8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD [are] upon the sinful
kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the
earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of
Jacob, saith the LORD.
He will destroy every sinful nation, not every nation that has an armed
populace. Therefore sin is the issue, but could say guns are not the
issue either way (for or against) but there are also other principles,
defending the family, the poor, etc, fighting against evil, keeping the
just in power and the evil out of power, etc.
If a nation is full of sin, God will destroy it. If it is not, he might
not particularly care either way, but if it is sinful he will single it
out for destruction.
Therefore, it is part of defending our nation and all those in it
including ourselves and others to keep a nation righteous, to put away
sin, to establish judgment, to put away evil doers, to defend the
innocent, etc by keeping our nation righteous or by returning it to
righteousness. Defense is more than knowing how to shoot, it is being
righteous and filling the nation with righteousness.
11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the
day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and
foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon
Jerusalem, even thou [wast] as one of them.
12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy
brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither
shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in
the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have
spoken proudly in the day of distress.
13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my
people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not
have looked on their affliction in the day of their
calamity, nor have laid [hands] on their substance in the
day of their calamity;
14 Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to
cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou
have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of
15 For the day of the LORD [is] near upon all the heathen:
as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward
shall return upon thine own head.
Doing nothing while the righteous are destroyed makes you one of the
destroyers. Each person has a responsibility to fight for those righteous or
helpless being attacked.
Being violent or causing violence to the poor helpless is a grave sin,
disarming them is a great way to expose them to violence and make them
helpless victims of it.
They watched but did nothing, they rejoiced and spoke proudly at the
destruction of God's people, the innocent, etc.
"looked on the day of thy brother" As in looking upon nakedness.
Took the goods of those already destroyed by someone else.
Helped the ungodly catch the righteous (don't be a turncoat and turn in
the righteous--don't be like Israel when they turned Sampson over to the
Philistines)--kinda--these were being judged for their sins, and yet it
was a sin to attack them, and to help round up those remaining, and to
turn them in to crime stoppers--helping the gov't catch those who do
things against the law but not necessarily against the Constitution or
Like the Isrealites who turned in Sampson--it is wrong to deliver the
good into the hand of the evil--ie turning in gun owners, pro-lifers
doing righteous deeds, home schoolers, "child abusers" (ie those who
discipline their children), or in any way helping the evil to spread
their destruction further or to other people--like so many programs that
encourage people to anonymously turn in people to the feds, etc--ie
deliver them into the hands of the enemy. Yes, you're darn right the
feds are the enemy. The Constitutional isn't, and the federal government
isn't, but those who control it and all that has been added to the fed
gov't that is unconstitutional is decidedly evil and our irreconcilable
3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong
nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into
plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall
not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn
war any more.
This will come only when Christ rules the earth and forces peace.
5 And this [man] shall be the peace, when the Assyrian
shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our
palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds,
and eight principal men.
6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword,
and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall
he deliver [us] from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our
land, and when he treadeth within our borders.
2 O LORD, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear!
[even] cry out unto thee [of] violence, and thou wilt not
3 Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause [me] to behold
grievance? for spoiling and violence [are] before me: and
there are [that] raise up strife and contention.
4 Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go
forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous;
therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.
9 They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup
up [as] the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity
as the sand.
This chapter is his bemoaning and grieving the Chaldeans coming and
spoiling and killing the nation.
1 This is violence that is wrong--because they need to be saved from it,
and also it is tied with spoiling--which is taking goods from the
victims, in this case God's people.
4. Wrong judgment happens when the wicked compass the righteous,
therefore we must put away the wicked and put ourselves in power and
maintain righteousness, else wrong judgment will proceed, and we will be
judged for it for allowing it or for all the harm done to the innocent.
"compass" wonder if this also means outnumber? _Strong's_ definition
defines it as to surround or encircle. Maybe it also means to make a
focused effort to eliminate them, neutralize them, strip them of
everything including their means to resist evil.
2-3,9. Violence is a judgment from God.
You are supposedly so pure and righteous that you can't even look at sin
and iniquity, but if you are so pure, why do you hold your peace when
the wicked devour people? You are a bunch of hypocrites, because
righteousness and purity have little to do with religious services
alone, it has to do with what is discussed in Isaiah: to loose the
bands, to break every yoke, to relieve the oppressed, to feed to hungry,
to visit the fatherless and widows; and as it says elsewhere, open your
mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to
destruction. Until you do that, religious service is just a bunch of
self deception that displeases God and allows the nation to be turned
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to
deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole
land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he
shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in
If God is angry with you, nothing will save you, not gold or guns or armies,
so the main thing is to have things OK between you and God, and then use your
resources to protect yourself. This doesn't mean unbelievers shouldn't try to
protect themselves because all their efforts will fail, because God's
principles of self defense are equally effective for lost as well as saved,
it rains on the just and the unjust, sowing and reaping is the same, so if you
sow weakness and helplessness, you will reap being overpowered and victimized.
Remember that the wicked work to eat and see the doctor when sick, so they
should also protect themselves for the day when they are saved, or at
least to make it possible for them to get saved. Dead folks can't get
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This [is]
the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might,
nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
Might isn't enough--good thing--we are weak in comparison to the
enemy--but if God fights for us, we will win.
Notice Zer was the fellow in Ezra and Neh who was a governor and was
building and keeping the worship of God alive.
8 And I will encamp about mine house because of the army,
because of him that passeth by, and because of him that
returneth: and no oppressor shall pass through them any
more: for now have I seen with mine eyes.
9. Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter
of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is]
just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass,
and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the
horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off:
and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion
[shall be] from sea [even] to sea, and from the river [even]
to the ends of the earth.
10 Is it a continuation of v.8? Is this what will happen when the King
comes? Maybe this is why some rejected Christ, they thought he would
bring physical peace and deliverance. But that's not why he came, he
came to make peace between God and man, and we must remember that that
is the most important thing, and spreading the news is more why we are
here, and we use the sword secondary to spreading the good news.
10 Weapons will be cut off. When these weapons will be cut off, the
other conditions will also be true, and God himself will do it, so those
who are trying to do one (disarm) withoug the other (give Israel
dominion from sea to see, etc) aren't doing anything good--and besides,
they are not God, although they act like they think they are.
15 The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall
devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink,
[and] make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled
like bowls, [and] as the corners of the altar.
God will defend them, and they will fight ??
God will help them fight.
3 Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I
punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his
flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly
horse in the battle.
4 Out of him came forth the corner, out of him the nail,
out of him the battle bow, out of him every oppressor
From God came the bow and oppressor--ie, the punishing enemy?
God has made his people as his battle horse. This is a positive
comparison and a blessing, so we can conclude several things. It is not
wrong, it is even good for God to have a battle horse (see Job). It is
not wrong, it is even good for God's people to be his battle horse (ie,
God uses his people in fighting, war, violence, and use of weapons, and
this is good, not evil). Therefore, fighting God's wars is a good
5. And they shall be as mighty [men], which tread down
[their enemies] in the mire of the streets in the battle:
and they shall fight, because the LORD [is] with them, and
the riders on horses shall be confounded.
God will give them the strength and help to fight, and those fighting
against them will be confounded? Who are each of these groups?
He's talking about his people and how we will help them fight. God will
help them tread the enemies into the mud in the streets. God helps
people fight, even fight viciously and brutally when necessary, and win.
Just because you are godly, you don't have to be kind to those you are
fighting. You can be like the prophet, and once they are in your hands
you can show them mercy, but not while they are a threat.
7 And [they of] Ephraim shall be like a mighty [man], and
their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their
children shall see [it], and be glad; their heart shall
rejoice in the LORD.
It is not contradictory to be like a great soldier and to rejoice in the
Lord at the same time.
Strength and cunningness for war are blessings from God and we can
rejoice in them. Strength is good and godly, righteous, etc. It is not
unchristian or ungodly.
In fact, to rejoice that God has helped you in battle to defeat the
enemy, to fight and kill and violently destroy them with well-practiced,
familiar, personally owned weapons.
6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land,
saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one
into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king:
and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will
not deliver [them].
It is a judgment of God when neighbor kills neighbor, or whoever the
verse refers to, and the king smites the land--is this his own land or
"into the hand of his king" We have this judgment: our own king smites
16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth
putting away: for [one] covereth violence with his garment,
saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit,
that ye deal not treacherously.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be
ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall
do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.
We shall tread them under our feet--or at least that was for Israel.
Another instance where successful violence was a blessing from God,
That he did through his people.
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but
whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him
the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away
thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with
Resist not evil--could be a problem unless demonstrate that this was not
for all cases--cheek smiting (insulting), suing. There are a number of
cases in the NT where Jesus and others did resist evil on several
levels, by avoiding it (running away) (from the brow of the hill, in the
basket), by arguing (Jesus with the people who were going to stone the
woman (that case was for someone else), Paul making his defense to the
people), we never saw an example of use, but maybe even by fighting,
after Jesus told his disciples to carry a sword, and Paul who fought
with beasts at Ephesus, whether or not that was literal or figurative
If someone comes to rape you, bend over or spread your legs and don't
run away (running away is a passive form of resistance), be totally
passive, if molesters come, don't stop them or call the police or press
Also, the devil is evil, and what he wants to do is evil, so don't
resist him--this is also obviously taking it too far, because we are
commanded to resist him. Additionally, the works of the devil are evil,
but Jesus came to destroy them, and sin is evil, and he came to put away
sin, and we are to not sin. The devil and sin are behind every evil
(left wing) idea, and if we are to put away sin and the works of the
devil, we have to fight against these things.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that
curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them
which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Love your enemies--does not mean let them rape your wife (provide for
your own or you're worse than an infidel), molest your children and
murder them for the devil, take your property God made you steward of
(if a man take your coat, give him your cloak also) to use for his glory
and to forward his kingdom, by giving $ for Bibles, missionaries, let
the heathen rule (be salt of the earth, but can do that without
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into
another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone
over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Flight--a level of resisting evil.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders,
adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness,
Out of the heart proceeds evil, not out of the sword's edge or the gun's
Not out of the environment or evil objects--but can't take this too far
or could legalize everything. Can't use those things that the Bible
warns about (alcohol), can't offend brother (eat meat from an idol that
offends him), can't do things conducive to sin, _look_ upon a woman to
lust after her (porno, etc), look on nakedness (porno), have to avoid
the appearance of evil and sin, of course have to avoid sin.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had
known in what watch the thief would come, he would have
watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken
Preventing robbery, he didn't say by what means, but it is resistance to
evil, and likely at least some force or threat of it is involved.
"according to the scriptures" Ie the OT, which is full of self-defense
and use of weapons.
Paul's defense refers to the OT, where the same principles of
self-defense and weaponry are.
The above are two sets of NT passages demonstrating that the OT is not
irrelevant to us today, Paul and Jesus referred to them to make points
and to prove what they were saying and who they were.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and
said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping
where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the
earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.
God expects up to put to use the talents and abilities he has given
51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus
stretched out [his] hand, and drew his sword, and struck a
servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into
his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish
with the sword.
JC didn't disapprove of carrying a weapon, just using it at wrong times
If there were no other scriptures on use of force and weapons, it would
be possible to interpret it to be a condemnation of their use. However,
condemnation is not the only possible interpretation. Additionally,
there are several interesting points that do not lend themselves well to
a universal condemnation of either weapons or force.
First, Jesus did not scold him for owning a sword.
He didn't scold him for carrying it.
He did not tell him to dump it or turn it in to the authorities.
He said 2 things:
put it back into the sheath on your hip,
if you use the sword, you will die with the sword.
He never said it was particularly bad to die by the sword, but that this
was why he came: to die (on the cross and not by a sword); and that his
kingdom was not of this world, or else his servants would fight. He also
had to fulfill prophecy, to go as a lamb to the slaughter, without even
opening his mouth, let alone going down in a sword fight.
Since it is not quite abundantly clear what JC is saying about weapons
and force, it is best to clarify the issue by comparing scripture with
scripture; to see what he said in other places, and to put it all
together to have a fuller picture of his truth on the matter, and to
compare it with other scripture, to have an even fuller picture of God's
view of the matter.
It is also important to remember that previously he told them to buy and
carry swords. Again, it wasn't clear why or if and how they ever used
them, except here, but that he told them to do it is clear. They had
only a few which JC was enough, which some might use to argue against
"arsenals," but counter balancing principles include having enough for
the need (forsee the evil and prepare sufficiently)--arming neighbors,
replacement parts; different types and calibers for different
situations, laying up store for children; investing talents in items of
growing value, etc.
Also, those who might argue against arsenals need to watch out for
camels and needles and eye beams, because even though they might not
have an over abundance of weapons, they might have other things in
excess of what they need: a house bigger than they need, food more
expensive or extensive than they need, a bigger car or more cars than
they need, more tennis racquets than they need, more clothes or more
expensive ones than they need, furniture, fishing gear, body creams and
powders, etc etc etc.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and
he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of
Jesus had all the force available to him that he could possibly need.
It wasn't wrong for him to have incredible force available for use at a
moment's notice--he just didn't use it. If force were wrong, he wouldn't
have had it available, and it was available to him, and he used it only
once, to knock them all down when they first came to him to take him
away. Why did he do that, I'm not sure. Maybe to show to them and the
world that he did indeed give his life, and no one took it. He could
just as easily have knocked them into geosynchronus orbit as knocked
them on the ground.
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that
thus it must be?
He did nothing because he needed to fulfill the scriptures. Which may be
a way of saying he would have used his authority to leave ("pass through
the midst of them," etc), that means for us also if we are not
fulfilling scripture by being lambs to the slaughter (actually there are
quite a few like that), we can also resist (Paul, etc resisted at
different levels at different times.)
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the
commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and,
Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother,
[It is] Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou
mightest be profited by me; [he shall be free].
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your
tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like
things do ye.
JC endorses the death penalty and says it's both God's word and his command.
if he were opposed to violence or hurting someone, he would oppose this, and
he's the one who came that all men might have life, and he's endorsing
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil
thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit,
lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the
out of the heart proceeds evil, not out of the sword's edge or the gun's
14. But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought
not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that
be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Jesus says they should flee during the time of trouble--a level of
47 And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a
servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
48 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out,
as against a thief, with swords and [with] staves to take
49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye
took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.
Jesus said no to fighting at this point because the scripture needed to
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the [one] cheek offer
also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid
not [to take thy] coat also.
Smite on cheek, give the other, didn't say anything about dying, just getting
slapped--insulted--didn't say what to do if family member or innocent person
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods
are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and
overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he
trusted, and divideth his spoils.
Peace through strength, not say if for or against it, just presents it as the
way it is, God wants us to live in reality, so maybe we should prepare,ie
forsee the evil and hide ourselves.
More gun control--the strong enemy disarms the defeated foe--first he
takes his weapons, then his goods (including his security, etc). You
know who your enemies are and who has defeated you and what enemies are
ruling over you by who disarms you, and by who spoils you of your goods
(god-given rights, property, money, etc).
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had
known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched,
and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh
at an hour when ye think not.
Jesus uses this as a positive example and says we should do the same in
other matters--this is resisting evil, and if he had meant resist in no
way any evil, he would have contradicted himself here.
If this is the good Samaritan, he resisted by ameliorating and trying to
reverse the effects of evil, ie the harm done to the man.
9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the
mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may
receive you into everlasting habitations.
Make friends of unrighteous money so when ye fail they will take you into
their houses, prepare for the trials and problems of life. Be ready ahead of
time. God doesn't want you to sit around and expect him to take care of you
every time a problem comes up. He wants you to do all in your power to 1 forsee
the problems 2 avoid them if possible, 3 be prepared to go through them 4
trust in him to help you through them. My people perish for lack of
42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD
said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
He quotes the book of Psalms, at least references to himself are valid,
as are, I suppose, several other verses. Psalms is the book that has the
(149) reference to carrying AK-47s in church and praising God.
Actually I tend to think perhaps it's not in church, because he also
mentions glory and bed just before that, so maybe he changed location
from the congregation.
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse,
and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said,
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse,
let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that
hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet
be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the
transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here [are] two swords. And
he said unto them, It is enough.
Forsee and prepare for physical needs, obstacles, challenges, hindrances, etc.
JC said prepare for things by taking money, a scrip, and specifically mentions
a sword. 1 prepare for things before they happen, 2 specific mention of
weaponry. Finances, clothing, weaponry, scrip.
At the very least we know buying and owning and carrying weapons is not evil
or wrong or contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Bible. The next
fact to establish is their use and the particular uses acceptable to
49 When they which were about him saw what would follow,
they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
More than one was armed--no where did JC tell them to dispose of their
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to
believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Believe _all_ the prophets have spoken.
44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I
spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things
must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses,
and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
Law, prophets, psalms = OT.
45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have
found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did
write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Moses, law, prophets = OT. These were what they referred to as the
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his
disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and
they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had
Scripture = OT. They believed BOTH--the scripture, ie OT, and the words
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Moses = OT.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have
eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Scriptures = OT.
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father:
there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me:
for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye
believe my words?
47 The OT is the foundation and partial validation of Christ.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if
any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the
bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for
the life of the world.
Fathers written (OT?)
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto
you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my
Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Moses = OT.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all
taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath
learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Prophets = OT.
19 Did not Moses give you the law, and [yet] none of you
keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Moses, law--this reference is not about Christ being in the scriptures,
as most of them are so far, this one is simply a reference about the
law, ie OT, more specifically, the Pentateuch, in general.
22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not
because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the
sabbath day circumcise a man.
23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that
the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me,
because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath
(same as 7:19?)
This is a reference to before the law (was it??), that circumcision was
instituted. Abraham was before the law of Moses.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of
two men is true.
Law--a principle that is true to prove a point about something
[Isa-Je20] [Je21-Eze] [Ez16-Jn8] [Jn10-Phlp] [Col3-Rev] [Misc] [New]
(c) November 4, 1995, May 31, 1996 David C. Treibs. All rights reserved./html /body