God and Guns: The Bible's Perspective on Personal Ownership and Use of Weapons, and Related Matters

God's sword (the Word) and ours (the rifle), superimposed over the Bible.(c) 1996, 1997 David C. Treibs, sirdavid@ktc.com

This page contains verse by verse commentary for Ezekiel 16 - John 8, detailing what the Bible says about owning and using guns.

Ezekiel 16:40
their personal swords?

Ezekiel 16:49
Wonder if this could be interpreted to mean literally strengthen and
enable the poor with more than just physical needs, perhaps also
strengthen and enable them against oppressors and the evil--I think this
is commanded elsewhere, perhaps here also.

Ezekiel 18:12
a. harms the weak
b. turns from God to something else
Both these are evil and both must be corrected--those who want to arm
the poor and help them economically by doing away with socialism but who
don't include repentence and humility toward God are not going to
succeed.
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Repentence and defense: God's medicine for a sick nation.
Two strong pills for a sick and dying nation
(Hard to swallow for some).

Ezekiel 18:18
Spoiling (the innocent and helpless) by violence is a sin, an evil, an
injustice, a call for God's judgment. This is one of the sins we must stand
against, it is one of the evils that is absolutely wrong and over which
innocence and right has the God given right to triumph over, and which
we have an _obligation_ to ensure happens.

Ezekiel 18:23,28,30,32
The purpose of God's punishment is repentance.

Ezekiel 20:26
One way God judges is to let us sin in ways that destroys us--in this
case he let them destroy their children so their productivity and
populace and such were destroyed--just like now God is allowing us to
destroy ourselves by crime and drugs and alcohol and violence and
corrupt gov't.
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We let criminals loose so they can prey upon us, we send the children to
government schools so they can be brainwashed by secular humanists and
evolutionists and then become evil and corrupt and prey upon society, we
disarm the righteous so they become a prey.

Ezekiel 21:3-4
The righteous can't just sit around and say, if there be 10 righteous in the
city, I don't have anything to worry about. There are many times when the
righteous will suffer at least as much as the wicked.

Ezekiel 21:3
Why ? Maybe because the righteous had lost their savor and were good for
nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot (George Orwell's boot
in the face) of men.

Ezekiel 21:9-12
The slayer might also be a criminal--remember when every man did what
was right in his own eyes? The highways could not be traveled because of
highwaymen.
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12 The terror of the sword? Isn't crime one of the big concerns in
America?

Ezekiel 21:15
Everywhere you turn, violence, crime, etc.

Ezekiel 21:31
Clinton is skillful to destroy us in many ways--economically,--nation,
businesses, and individuals, morally, with crime, by disarming us, with
welfare, so everyone is like the CA rioters--criminals demanding stuff,
with witchcraft (Hillary), by tyranny--the feds are murderers, our put
use of our land.
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The UN and foreign gov't are skillful to destroy our sovereignty and
take us citizens out for trials.
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Criminals and scam makers and the mafia are skillful to destroy.
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"brutish" Stupid, violent, and coarse?

Ezekiel 22:6
A gov't of murderers. Maybe they also machine-gunned boys in the back,
blew women's heads off, teargassed children for 6 hours and said it was
to help them, and then burned them up to save them from child abuse.

Ezekiel 22:7
Vex fatherless by taxes, gun control, put property laws, environmental
and land and business regulations, fear, let the criminals loose so they
can prey upon them, etc.

Ezekiel 22:29
Oppress poor, needy, stranger.
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The poor, needy, and strangers suffer.

Ezekiel 22:30
No one to stand in the gap for all this.
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I guess Ezekiel and the prophets weren't enough. In the previous verses
he compared the lying prophets to those who would not stand in the
gap--maybe he wanted someone to turn the nation around, but even those
who were trying could not turn the nation around, and so there was no
one to stand in the gap.

Ezekiel 22:31
Therefore destroy the nation--we must stand in the gap for our nation
spiritually also and must reverse the evils of v. 29 and all the other
listed sins (v.6-12,26-29)--one way to help the poor and needy is enable
them to not be poor (ie, capitalism), and to enable them to resist
murder and oppressors, ie arm them, or at least allow them to arm
themselves.
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Also, v.31--evil becomes its own punishment, because the natural results
of sin begin destroying everyone and everything, even the innocent.

Ezekiel 24:21
The children will die by the sword--destruction of the innocent.
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Whatever the nation considers sacred and beautiful, that will God
destroy. When you see everything sacred and beloved being destroyed and
profained, consider why. Loss of children is another sign--abortion,
public schools, etc.

Ezekiel 24:25
Children are all these things.

Ezekiel 28:16
God is speaking about the devil, King of Tyrus--he is full of violence,
but God is a man of war. Remember also the "violent man" of David, it
was not that he used violence, but that he did evil things with the
force he used.

Ezekiel 28:23
Judged by the sword.

Ezekiel 29:6-8
Israel, God's people, depended on Egypt, but Egypt was too weak, and
didn't deliver God's people, therefore God will destroy Egypt. When
God's people depend on someone, they better be strong, or God will be
unhappy with them. I don't know what case this was, but usually Israel
hoped Egypt would deliver them from Babylon, which, by the way, was
God's punisher for Israel's sins (Is 36:6, Jeremiah 37:5,7,11).

Ezekiel 30:11
The enemy will prevail with their weapons, but God never says disarm, the
enemy or otherwise, he says repent.

Ezekiel 30:22
God is going to destroy Egypt (been talking about it for awhile) by
knocking the sword out of his hand, he won't be able to fight. Maybe the
same for USA--God is judging us by knocking the sword out of our hands.
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We try to protect ourselves and we fail. We try to defend ourselves from
crime and we are disarmed and arrested and sent to prison for daring to
defend ourselves. 1st we need to repent, 2nd we need to throw out the
wicked who are making things this way and turn our nation around.

Ezekiel 30:24
Strengthen the arms--give him victory (it says following is a con't of
v.22 but I think I meant v.24) against the criminals and gov't and (v.24)
by breaking our arms--the strength and ability to use the sword, to
resist the evil coming upon our nation, etc. When we see this happening
we must seek God, repent, pray, etc, not just figure we need to fight
harder (although that's also necessary). Like George Washington.

Ezekiel 32:27
Apparently they buried the warriors with their personal weapons, as if they
were part of their most cherished personal effects, as if they weren't owned
by anyone else. That's a nice way to say they owned the weapons they used.
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COMPARISON
Their swords are different from their iniquities. The swords will be on
their heads, but the iniquities on their bones. A weapon does not equal
sin and is not sinful.

Ezekiel 33:1-6
2. When God's judgment falls on the land and he sends a sword--it is
because of his judgment that the sword comes, the watchman is still
responsible to do his part to warn the people so they can escape or
prepare to fight or shut the gates.
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The watchman can't say, it's God's will that the people be destroyed,
because this sword is divinely sent from God, and I don't want to have a
part in resisting God's will and God's judgment. Therefore I'm not going
to warn the people for that reason, and because it wouldn't do any good
anyway since the sword is from God and no one can successfully resist
God.
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2. "set him for a watchman" Defensive action against God's judgment.
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4. Additionally, the people have a responsibility to work to save their
lives, once they know the sword is coming. They can't say, this sword is
God's judgment against our nation, and therefore I won't do anything to
resist God's will and judgment by helping himself or others. Could also
say can't warn others for the same reasoning--resisting God's judgment.
Besides,
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6. He is taken in his iniquity--he is destroyed because of his sin, but
that is no excuse for not protecting him from destruction. We are
required to protect even those who are being destroyed because of their
sins. However, we can't confuse this with the death penalty or
self-defense, we can't protect them by letting them harm us and not
using violence to stop them.
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God will protect me if I'm innocent and not sinful. I doubt it. The
Bible says if you know of the evil and don't deliver yourself, 1. the
sword will kill you, and 2. it will by your fault (your blood will be on
your head). Also, the simple pass on and are punished.

Ezekiel 33:2-4
When God Judges a land and brings a sword, if the watchman does not warn the
people, God will hold him responsible, even though the attack was from God and
was to judge the people for their sin. If the watchman fails to protect the
people, God will punish him. They were commanded to help the people
evade the enemy, even though God sent the enemy, and they were commanded
to help the people stay alive even though God wanted them dead.

God will punish those who have the ability (are able...can) defend the
innocent (or even sinners) but don't. He will punish them for the
innocent who are destroyed who would have had more of a chance to live,
but didn't. It won't be because he didn't save them, because they might
have died anyway, but at least he gave them a chance, and if they try to
defend themselves if you augment their ability to defend themselves
(Esther) or even just escape God will pleased with you even if they
don't survive.

Ezekiel 33:11
Not that the wicked be disarmed (of course, it also doesn't say they
shall go to prison or be put to death, etc--don't forget that--but it
does say that elsewhere, and it doesn't say anywhere that the wicked
should be disarmed).
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There are obviously principles involved in here, because first he talks
about the responsibility of the watchman, and then he says these same
principles apply to the prophet Ezekiel.
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This also demonstrates the purpose of God's punishment, the sword,
famine, and pestilence, violence in the land, etc--it is to return the
nation to God and to bring repentence.

Ezekiel 33:21
This Godly and righteous man was part of those captured by the enemy,
even though the captivity was God's judgment for Israel's sin, and
Ezekiel hadn't sinned, or at least had not contributed to the national
sin that brought on the destruction and judgment. The righteous man was
suffering God's judgment even though he was innocent. The righteous do
suffer for the sins of the wicked (that is one of major characteristics
of sin--it destroys the innocent, and of course, the righteous suffer
also,
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although you might say he didn't suffer the direct divine judgment, just
the harvest of the nation for their sins--since HE'S PART OF THE
NATION.

Ezekiel 35:4-5
Not innocent, not invulnerable--if not innocent, then they are
committing God-forbidden evil against the innocent and helpless and
God's people, and since that's the case, we are obligated to stop them.
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It is an act of sin and evil to carry out God's judgment against his
people (what if they are abortionists?) or against the innocent or when
there is no God-authorized reason for killing. Since it is an act of
sin, we must, as we are obligated to in the non-God's-judgment (we have
to defend even when the people are being destroyed because of God's
judgment, and how much more so when it is not God's judgment. Actually
that's not a good statement, because we have to defend the same no
matter what the case.) category of defending those who need it, defend
those who are suffering, as the watchman must do his part to protect, or
he is guilty, so it is with us.
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Carrying out God's judgment against his people is a sin, and it also is
decidedly a sin to stand by while God's people are being destroyed for
sin, as those who stood by in the OT, and God judged them for it.

Ezekiel 35:6
If you do not hate blood, it will pursue you. In this case it refers to
those shedding the blood (combined with the verses saying we must not
hold back when it's in our hand to do good and defend the good, we might
be able to say if we do not hate blood (the innocent dying) to the point
that we stop it, then blood will pursue us. It's certainly true in the
abortion/euthanasia area that what we allow will come back to haunt us
through forced AB, us being euthanized, etc.

Ezekiel 38:21
It is a sign of wickedness when a nation's sword turns against itself. You
know a nation is full of sin when this happens.

Ezekiel 39:3
God's method of destroying them is not to disarm them but to render
their weapons useless (remember that one of God's judgments, as the
Philistines did to Israel, is to disarm them before their enemies so
they cannot stand or resist), as he did to Israel when they were
resisting the enemy that God had sent to judge them and punish
them--figure out how this squares with 35:4-5 if God's judgment is upon
us and we resist the enemy's sword, will we have our weapons knocked out
of our hands? Perhaps, but perhaps if we couple it with repentance, he
will not, or perhaps we will be like Josiah and be killed in battle so
we don't see the destruction, or perhaps we will be the vehicle God uses
to give our people a small amount of deliverance and relief, as he did
to Israel several times with various saviors and mighty men.

Ezekiel 39:10
Israel will spoil those that spoiled them when God socks Gog and Magog
on the mountains of Israel, enabling the spoiled, defiled, helpless, etc
to protect themselves; and commands to rescue and strengthen them.
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One of God's blessings is to spoil the enemy, to spoil those who spoiled
you (Amos)--if it is a blessing of God, it couldn't be evil. Note: one
of the things that always happens when people spoil their enemies, they
take a good portion of the loot for themselves, including the weapons
they find, and this is one way individuals obtain the best and most
modern, if perhaps somewhat dinted, weapons available, probably
including swords, spears, shields, chariots (tanks), engines of war
(stone hurlers, ie artillery, missiles), certainly including weapons
that are larger than borne weapons (artillery, ships, squad, batallion,
platoon weapons), etc.

Ezekiel 40:1
The righteous suffer with the wicked--his city and temple were
destroyed, perhaps it was his birthplace and homeland, his country was
attacked, he was a captive, perhaps his brothers or sisters or parents
were harmed or killed.
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He had to stand by while the women were raped, the men killed, their
children terrified and killed and abused and their brains dashed out.
Then he had to hear their groans and misery afterward, to see the women
pregnant, grieving over their lost husbands, brothers, children, wives,
etc.

Ezekiel 45:9
He is telling them, I think, to stop being violent (the princes), etc.
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"exactions" taxes
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He is also possibly telling them to stop it from happening--ie, protect
those who are under their authority.

Daniel 7:21-22,25
Made war with the saints and prevailed, harmed, killed, captured them.
The saints are not immune from war or from being harmed by it, and the
devil does not always lose when he comes against God's people.
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The it's-the-end-times-so-let's-not-even-try crowd would say we can't
resist evil because we will lose anyway and so why try; they fail to see
that we are still obligated to defend our families (or be worse than in
infidel), the innocent (or be guilty of innocent blood), our nation (or
be like the lying priests who failed to stand in the gap), etc, and we
are commanded to occupy until he returns and be salt and light.
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Whenever this time is we will know because the devil will kill us, then
we will go to heaven and God will tell us. I doubt if even the devil
knows when it will be the end time, because every day almost since
creation he has had his man ready, but God has always shot him down, and
so the devil never quite knows, maybe, who will be the one God allows to
do the wrong thing. Down here we are obligated to resist. We are not
excused from defending the innocent just because it's the devil's turn
to win. It doesn't say the saints gave up. It says the devil won.
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Besides, there have been many times since this prophecy was given
(several thousand BC, perhaps?) that Christians were being destroyed,
and they didn't know if it was the end or not, but the followed God's
commands to rescue the innocent or warn the others (watchman), and
escape or whatever they did.

Daniel 9:7-8
Confusion because of trespasses and sins.

Daniel 9:10-12
The nation sinned and rejected God, therefore the curse; the great evil
is because of sin.
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Destruction comes from sin and unrepentence, not from weapons or the
lack of them. That doesn't mean you can ignore all the verses on
self-defense, preparedness, protecting the innocent, fighting the enemy,
etc. It just shows the root cause.
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Also, just because you are armed to the teeth doesn't mean that will
help you defend the innocent, any more than having no weapons means you
cannot or will not be able to defend the innocent. In the USA, weapons
don't really help us defend the unborn. For the most part, we have to do
that by some means besides weapons.

Hosea 1:7
An example of when God does it himself without using anything or anyone
else.
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God is admitting he uses these methods (ie, sword, battle, horses,
horsemen) at times, but in this instance he will not use those
methods.

Hosea 1:7
Don't trust in weapons or tactics or numbers, but in God alone.
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Remember tat trusting, ie, faith in God isn't the same as leaving it up
to him. We have to do our part.

Hosea 2:18
God is the only one able to make us safe by stopping weapons.
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When animals are at peace with each other and don't eat each other and
don't fight, etc, then we can figure maybe there will also be peace
among people.

Hosea 4:1-2
God is angry when the land is full of blood, and when there is no
knowledge of Him in the land.
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In this case, killing is included with swearing, lying, stealing, etc,
so we know it is violence for violence sake, and for selfish ends, it is
not the right kind.
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Blood toucheth blood lets us know this is innocent blood, and so it is
not the good people exercising self-defense and killing the bad guys.
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This is where you have to make a distinction between between the context
or list demonstrating that something is always wrong, verses the context
demonstrating that only the particular type being discussed is wrong but
not all of it is always wrong, and the context tells us what which type,
good or bad, is being discussed.

Hosea 7:1-2
The thieves and robbers are their own doings besetting them--ie, the
natural consequences of their sins.
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Instead of organizing into groups or associations to defend the nation
and the innocent and their neighborhoods, they have organized into
groups to do evil.

Hosea 7:15
No repentance, what else does it mean?
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"bound" means chastened
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DESTRUCTION words to consider looking up in relation to violence and
VIOLENCE force, etc
SPOIL

Hosea 8:14
Those who trust in religion or military might but not the Lord will be
destroyed.
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The major and minor prophets have a central theme of bringing God's
people back to repentence.
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For those pious religious folks who disdain arms and might, they should
consider this--that religious sites aren't any better, along with
religious service by the priests and religious patronage by the people.
Anyone who says weapons are no good can also add religious service and
churches to the list as being useless without God--and if someone should
twist this or one of the other verses to mean, since it's not going to
help them (even though they build armed cities), that means it's no
good, or else they might say the only thing really necessary is
repentence, and nothing else is really all that important, and you can
do away with all the other, and it shouldn't be part of doing what's
right, and therefore it is useless to keep them around, and they are not
part of God's plan, and maybe even it would be beneficial to rid society
of them, then we can turn around and say the same about churches and
everything related to religious service, based on this verse. Religious
service does not equal turning to God, any more than weapons do, but
that doesn't mean we should eliminate one or the other--it just means we
need our hearts right for either of these to have meaning, and for God
to bless them--we must remember our Maker.

Hosea 9:8
The watchman was godly, but the prophet was not ??
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Look up cross references to watchman, Ephraim, and see if you can figure
out what this means.
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The non-religious-dutied person was more Godly in that he carried out
his God-given responsibility better than did the prophet who supposedly
was supposed to be closer to God than anyone else/ if so, we can derive
that non-religious duty can still be service to God in a very real
sense. And in fact, duties related to war, violence, fighting, and
weapons can be Godly, pleasing to God, and can enable a person to be in
communion with God to some extent the same way that a prophet is in
communion with God because of his position.

Hosea 10:13
Same as Hosea 8:14.

Hosea 10:13
Reap what is sown--natural consequences, and trusted mighty men instead
of God, therefore will lose the battle.
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He didn't say it was wrong to have mighty men or strength, he said they
should have trusted in God instead of them.

Hosea 13:4
God is the only one who saves from anything, so even if all you do is
give people food to save them from starving, it's still God who does the
saving, same with anything else.

Hosea 13:16
Rebelling against God brings the sword and destruction of the innocent,
weak, children, etc.
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When destruction comes, it's time to check your heart condition to see
if you're right with God, or if you as in individual and a/or a nation
are full of wickedness. If the innocent are being destroyed, there's a
pretty good chance something is really wrong with lots of hearts.

Joel 2:12-14
Repent and God might turn back the evil. He's under no obligation to do
so, because it is the consequence of our evil, but he might be merciful
and turn it back for his mercy's sake (certainly not because we deserve
it), and we should approach him with that attitude: we plead for mercy,
even though our sins require judgment and destruction.
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The purpose of the destruction is repentence. That doesn't mean you
can't stop it or you are preventing repentence. We are still obligated
to be a watchman, to deliver those slated to die, etc.
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Sometimes also the wages and penalty of sin is death and destruction,
and God is giving us the penalty for what we have done.

Joel 3:19
When the Egyptians killed the Israelites as a judgment of God, they
destroyed the innocent. They also destroyed those who were not innocent,
but whom they had no reason to destroy. When a nation is under divine
judgment there are still many innocent people in it, and they, too will
be destroyed, or it could be saying most of them were innocent, to some
extent, even though they had sinned. IF, even in God's judgment against
a nation, the innocent are destroyed, we are not any less required to
defend the innocent, sound the warning so they can escape, etc. No one
can say, because it is God's judgment, we cannot resist, either
passively or actively, remember those who didn't help Israel when they
were being judged and God punished them for it. Just don't over do it and
say no one who is guilty should die, because obviously that contradicts
the law, etc. see also Jeremiah 49:17 and Obadiah 10.
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One result of the shedding of innocent blood and violence against the
good is a desolate nation.

Amos 1:13
The innocent are destroyed by the wicked.
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When the innocent and righteous are destroyed, it brings God's wrath and
destruction (which brings on more destruction of the innocent and
righteous). Therefore, to save our nation and ourselves and our families
and our houses we must stop the destruction by the wicked. And we must
bring our nation to repentence. We must be in power, be wise, be armed,
and fight. See Amos 2:6.

Amos 2:6
The righteous and the poor suffer at the hand of the wicked.
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See Amos 1:13.

Amos 2:12-16
When God is against you, no amount of strength will help.
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Loss of strength and ability to resist and loss of weapons and the
ability to use them effectively may be because God is against you
because you (nation, individual, or group (militia)) have done evil or
have not done righteously.

Amos 4:10
The purpose of the sword is repentance, not disarmament.

Amos 5:8-9
He strengthens those who have been beaten and robbed by the enemy so
they can come against the enemy in his strongest position and clobber
him--doesn't say they'll just sit around and pray and trust God--it says
they will come against--attack--the fortress!!
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This is a good verse to put next to verses like Amos 2:12-16 where he
says the strong won't be able to stand if you do evil or don't do right.
If God is on our side, even if we are all but few and wounded (Jer
37:10), it doesn't matter how weak we are, even if we have been spoiled
by the mighty evil, it is possible to win (although we won't know if God
will give us the victory, that's up to him, but we still have a duty to
fight).

Amos 5:11-12
The just suffer from the wicked, and the poor.
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11 "take...built...planted" Things that are done at the expense of
others will not stand or enjoy God's blessings--social programs that
take away others' money, etc.

Amos 5:14-15
Hate evil--don't be comfortable with it and tolerate it--stomp it out of
existence! Fight against evil, and protect and forward the good! And
establish these in the gate, ie make that part of the law of the land
(destroy evil, forward good). The gate is the main place of traffic and
perhaps trade.
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15 You have to do BOTH, you have to _establish_ judgment--put the right
people in power so there will be judgment! If we do this, God might be
merciful to our nation.
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The gate was where the wise men sat who witnessed and legalized
transactions, etc (ie court, notary publics, etc). See how Ruth's
daughter-in-law had Boaz (?) go to the gate to make the deal for the
land and the woman.

Amos 5:21-24
God hated their religious deeds because they didn't couple them with
righteous action (and it probably wasn't genuine anyway, they weren't
doing it from the heart or for the right reasons)--to stop evil, to
defend the good, to help the poor, etc. In fact, they were probably the
ones "devouring widows houses and for a pretense make long prayers."
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God is so sick of their sins that he doesn't want anything to do with
their religious ceremonies. He says, go and fill the land with
righteousness and judgment first. Perhaps people today should heed this,
instead of only hiding in their closets praying, they ought to go out and
fight against sin and the wicked.

Amos 6:1,3,5
Woe to those who are at ease when it's time to do something because the
nation is afflicted (inaction in the face of need is a sin), and who
cause the seat of violence to come near, whatever that means. Perhaps
they were doing nothing to re-establish righteousness and justice.
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Perhaps the seat is like the heart or the center or the place from where
violence emanates, which Jesus said is from the heart--so maybe they
caused evil and violent people to come near, ie they opened up the poor
and needy and innocent to these evil people, or they made it possible
for these evil people to exist or comfortably prey upon the good, etc.
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3 Sin and spoil the nation but deny the consequences and the judgment to
come. All that sin working on the nation brings God's wrath, and brings
the natural consequences of sin, which includes "the seat of
violence."

Amos 6:13
Don't say you have done it by your own strength.

Amos 8:4,6
Harm the poor.
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TROOP (a military term to add to the list to search for.)
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4 "buy the poor for silver" Do things to them so you can buy them for
money, or promises (politicians). Invade and disarm the Hatians (UN) and
then promise to protect them if they will be docile slaves.
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"sell the refuse of the wheat" Sell junk as something good to those in
need of good, not the junk you sold them. Maybe includes selling ideas
that are no good and only end up harming--social security harms the old,
welfare harms the poor, gun control harms the defenseless.

Amos 9:8
He will destroy every sinful nation, not every nation that has an armed
populace. Therefore sin is the issue, but could say guns are not the
issue either way (for or against) but there are also other principles,
defending the family, the poor, etc, fighting against evil, keeping the
just in power and the evil out of power, etc.
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If a nation is full of sin, God will destroy it. If it is not, he might
not particularly care either way, but if it is sinful he will single it
out for destruction.
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Therefore, it is part of defending our nation and all those in it
including ourselves and others to keep a nation righteous, to put away
sin, to establish judgment, to put away evil doers, to defend the
innocent, etc by keeping our nation righteous or by returning it to
righteousness. Defense is more than knowing how to shoot, it is being
righteous and filling the nation with righteousness.

Obadiah 1:11-15
Doing nothing while the righteous are destroyed makes you one of the
destroyers. Each person has a responsibility to fight for those righteous or
helpless being attacked.
%
Being violent or causing violence to the poor helpless is a grave sin,
disarming them is a great way to expose them to violence and make them
helpless victims of it.
%
Obadiah 12
They watched but did nothing, they rejoiced and spoke proudly at the
destruction of God's people, the innocent, etc.
%
"looked on the day of thy brother" As in looking upon nakedness.
%
Obadiah 13
Took the goods of those already destroyed by someone else.
%
Obadiah 14
Helped the ungodly catch the righteous (don't be a turncoat and turn in
the righteous--don't be like Israel when they turned Sampson over to the
Philistines)--kinda--these were being judged for their sins, and yet it
was a sin to attack them, and to help round up those remaining, and to
turn them in to crime stoppers--helping the gov't catch those who do
things against the law but not necessarily against the Constitution or
God's law.
%
Like the Isrealites who turned in Sampson--it is wrong to deliver the
good into the hand of the evil--ie turning in gun owners, pro-lifers
doing righteous deeds, home schoolers, "child abusers" (ie those who
discipline their children), or in any way helping the evil to spread
their destruction further or to other people--like so many programs that
encourage people to anonymously turn in people to the feds, etc--ie
deliver them into the hands of the enemy. Yes, you're darn right the
feds are the enemy. The Constitutional isn't, and the federal government
isn't, but those who control it and all that has been added to the fed
gov't that is unconstitutional is decidedly evil and our irreconcilable
enemy.

Micah 4:3
This will come only when Christ rules the earth and forces peace.

Habakkuk 1:2-4,9
This chapter is his bemoaning and grieving the Chaldeans coming and
spoiling and killing the nation.
%
%
1 This is violence that is wrong--because they need to be saved from it,
and also it is tied with spoiling--which is taking goods from the
victims, in this case God's people.
%
4. Wrong judgment happens when the wicked compass the righteous,
therefore we must put away the wicked and put ourselves in power and
maintain righteousness, else wrong judgment will proceed, and we will be
judged for it for allowing it or for all the harm done to the innocent.
%
"compass" wonder if this also means outnumber? _Strong's_ definition
defines it as to surround or encircle. Maybe it also means to make a
focused effort to eliminate them, neutralize them, strip them of
everything including their means to resist evil.
%
2-3,9. Violence is a judgment from God.

You are supposedly so pure and righteous that you can't even look at sin
and iniquity, but if you are so pure, why do you hold your peace when
the wicked devour people? You are a bunch of hypocrites, because
righteousness and purity have little to do with religious services
alone, it has to do with what is discussed in Isaiah: to loose the
bands, to break every yoke, to relieve the oppressed, to feed to hungry,
to visit the fatherless and widows; and as it says elsewhere, open your
mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to
destruction. Until you do that, religious service is just a bunch of
self deception that displeases God and allows the nation to be turned
into hell.

Zephaniah 1:18
If God is angry with you, nothing will save you, not gold or guns or armies,
so the main thing is to have things OK between you and God, and then use your
resources to protect yourself. This doesn't mean unbelievers shouldn't try to
protect themselves because all their efforts will fail, because God's
principles of self defense are equally effective for lost as well as saved,
it rains on the just and the unjust, sowing and reaping is the same, so if you
sow weakness and helplessness, you will reap being overpowered and victimized.
Remember that the wicked work to eat and see the doctor when sick, so they
should also protect themselves for the day when they are saved, or at
least to make it possible for them to get saved. Dead folks can't get
saved.

Zechariah 4:6
Might isn't enough--good thing--we are weak in comparison to the
enemy--but if God fights for us, we will win.
%
Notice Zer was the fellow in Ezra and Neh who was a governor and was
building and keeping the worship of God alive.

Zechariah 9:8-10
10 Is it a continuation of v.8? Is this what will happen when the King
comes? Maybe this is why some rejected Christ, they thought he would
bring physical peace and deliverance. But that's not why he came, he
came to make peace between God and man, and we must remember that that
is the most important thing, and spreading the news is more why we are
here, and we use the sword secondary to spreading the good news.
%
10 Weapons will be cut off. When these weapons will be cut off, the
other conditions will also be true, and God himself will do it, so those
who are trying to do one (disarm) withoug the other (give Israel
dominion from sea to see, etc) aren't doing anything good--and besides,
they are not God, although they act like they think they are.

Zechariah 9:15
God will defend them, and they will fight ??
%
God will help them fight.

Zechariah 10:3-4
From God came the bow and oppressor--ie, the punishing enemy?
%
COMPARISON
God has made his people as his battle horse. This is a positive
comparison and a blessing, so we can conclude several things. It is not
wrong, it is even good for God to have a battle horse (see Job). It is
not wrong, it is even good for God's people to be his battle horse (ie,
God uses his people in fighting, war, violence, and use of weapons, and
this is good, not evil). Therefore, fighting God's wars is a good
thing.

Zechariah 10:5
God will give them the strength and help to fight, and those fighting
against them will be confounded? Who are each of these groups?
%
He's talking about his people and how we will help them fight. God will
help them tread the enemies into the mud in the streets. God helps
people fight, even fight viciously and brutally when necessary, and win.
Just because you are godly, you don't have to be kind to those you are
fighting. You can be like the prophet, and once they are in your hands
you can show them mercy, but not while they are a threat.

Zechariah 10:7
It is not contradictory to be like a great soldier and to rejoice in the
Lord at the same time.
%
Strength and cunningness for war are blessings from God and we can
rejoice in them. Strength is good and godly, righteous, etc. It is not
unchristian or ungodly.
%
In fact, to rejoice that God has helped you in battle to defeat the
enemy, to fight and kill and violently destroy them with well-practiced,
familiar, personally owned weapons.

Zechariah 11:6
It is a judgment of God when neighbor kills neighbor, or whoever the
verse refers to, and the king smites the land--is this his own land or
another?
%
"into the hand of his king" We have this judgment: our own king smites
us.

Malachi 4:3
We shall tread them under our feet--or at least that was for Israel.
%
Another instance where successful violence was a blessing from God,
That he did through his people.

Matthew 5:39-41
Resist not evil--could be a problem unless demonstrate that this was not
for all cases--cheek smiting (insulting), suing. There are a number of
cases in the NT where Jesus and others did resist evil on several
levels, by avoiding it (running away) (from the brow of the hill, in the
basket), by arguing (Jesus with the people who were going to stone the
woman (that case was for someone else), Paul making his defense to the
people), we never saw an example of use, but maybe even by fighting,
after Jesus told his disciples to carry a sword, and Paul who fought
with beasts at Ephesus, whether or not that was literal or figurative
(the beasts).
%
If someone comes to rape you, bend over or spread your legs and don't
run away (running away is a passive form of resistance), be totally
passive, if molesters come, don't stop them or call the police or press
charges.
%
Also, the devil is evil, and what he wants to do is evil, so don't
resist him--this is also obviously taking it too far, because we are
commanded to resist him. Additionally, the works of the devil are evil,
but Jesus came to destroy them, and sin is evil, and he came to put away
sin, and we are to not sin. The devil and sin are behind every evil
(left wing) idea, and if we are to put away sin and the works of the
devil, we have to fight against these things.

Matthew 5:44
Love your enemies--does not mean let them rape your wife (provide for
your own or you're worse than an infidel), molest your children and
murder them for the devil, take your property God made you steward of
(if a man take your coat, give him your cloak also) to use for his glory
and to forward his kingdom, by giving $ for Bibles, missionaries, let
the heathen rule (be salt of the earth, but can do that without
ruling).

Matthew 10:23
Flight--a level of resisting evil.

Matthew 15:19
Out of the heart proceeds evil, not out of the sword's edge or the gun's
barrel.
%
Not out of the environment or evil objects--but can't take this too far
or could legalize everything. Can't use those things that the Bible
warns about (alcohol), can't offend brother (eat meat from an idol that
offends him), can't do things conducive to sin, _look_ upon a woman to
lust after her (porno, etc), look on nakedness (porno), have to avoid
the appearance of evil and sin, of course have to avoid sin.

Matthew 24:43
Preventing robbery, he didn't say by what means, but it is resistance to
evil, and likely at least some force or threat of it is involved.
%
===
%
"according to the scriptures" Ie the OT, which is full of self-defense
and use of weapons.
%
Paul's defense refers to the OT, where the same principles of
self-defense and weaponry are.
%
The above are two sets of NT passages demonstrating that the OT is not
irrelevant to us today, Paul and Jesus referred to them to make points
and to prove what they were saying and who they were.

Matthew 25:24-25
God expects up to put to use the talents and abilities he has given
us.

Matthew 26:51-52
JC didn't disapprove of carrying a weapon, just using it at wrong times
%
If there were no other scriptures on use of force and weapons, it would
be possible to interpret it to be a condemnation of their use. However,
condemnation is not the only possible interpretation. Additionally,
there are several interesting points that do not lend themselves well to
a universal condemnation of either weapons or force.
%
First, Jesus did not scold him for owning a sword.
%
He didn't scold him for carrying it.
%
He did not tell him to dump it or turn it in to the authorities.
%
He said 2 things:
%
put it back into the sheath on your hip,
%
if you use the sword, you will die with the sword.
%
He never said it was particularly bad to die by the sword, but that this
was why he came: to die (on the cross and not by a sword); and that his
kingdom was not of this world, or else his servants would fight. He also
had to fulfill prophecy, to go as a lamb to the slaughter, without even
opening his mouth, let alone going down in a sword fight.
%
Since it is not quite abundantly clear what JC is saying about weapons
and force, it is best to clarify the issue by comparing scripture with
scripture; to see what he said in other places, and to put it all
together to have a fuller picture of his truth on the matter, and to
compare it with other scripture, to have an even fuller picture of God's
view of the matter.
%
It is also important to remember that previously he told them to buy and
carry swords. Again, it wasn't clear why or if and how they ever used
them, except here, but that he told them to do it is clear. They had
only a few which JC was enough, which some might use to argue against
"arsenals," but counter balancing principles include having enough for
the need (forsee the evil and prepare sufficiently)--arming neighbors,
replacement parts; different types and calibers for different
situations, laying up store for children; investing talents in items of
growing value, etc.

Also, those who might argue against arsenals need to watch out for
camels and needles and eye beams, because even though they might not
have an over abundance of weapons, they might have other things in
excess of what they need: a house bigger than they need, food more
expensive or extensive than they need, a bigger car or more cars than
they need, more tennis racquets than they need, more clothes or more
expensive ones than they need, furniture, fishing gear, body creams and
powders, etc etc etc.

Matthew 26:53
Jesus had all the force available to him that he could possibly need.
%
It wasn't wrong for him to have incredible force available for use at a
moment's notice--he just didn't use it. If force were wrong, he wouldn't
have had it available, and it was available to him, and he used it only
once, to knock them all down when they first came to him to take him
away. Why did he do that, I'm not sure. Maybe to show to them and the
world that he did indeed give his life, and no one took it. He could
just as easily have knocked them into geosynchronus orbit as knocked
them on the ground.

Matthew 26:54
He did nothing because he needed to fulfill the scriptures. Which may be
a way of saying he would have used his authority to leave ("pass through
the midst of them," etc), that means for us also if we are not
fulfilling scripture by being lambs to the slaughter (actually there are
quite a few like that), we can also resist (Paul, etc resisted at
different levels at different times.)

Mark 7:9-13
JC endorses the death penalty and says it's both God's word and his command.
if he were opposed to violence or hurting someone, he would oppose this, and
he's the one who came that all men might have life, and he's endorsing
death.

Mark 7:21-23
out of the heart proceeds evil, not out of the sword's edge or the gun's
barrel.

Mark 13:14
Jesus says they should flee during the time of trouble--a level of
resistance.

Mark 14:47-49
Jesus said no to fighting at this point because the scripture needed to
be fulfilled.

Luke 6:29
Smite on cheek, give the other, didn't say anything about dying, just getting
slapped--insulted--didn't say what to do if family member or innocent person
is attacked.

Luke 11:21-22
Peace through strength, not say if for or against it, just presents it as the
way it is, God wants us to live in reality, so maybe we should prepare,ie
forsee the evil and hide ourselves.
%
More gun control--the strong enemy disarms the defeated foe--first he
takes his weapons, then his goods (including his security, etc). You
know who your enemies are and who has defeated you and what enemies are
ruling over you by who disarms you, and by who spoils you of your goods
(god-given rights, property, money, etc).

Luke 12:39-40
Jesus uses this as a positive example and says we should do the same in
other matters--this is resisting evil, and if he had meant resist in no
way any evil, he would have contradicted himself here.
%
If this is the good Samaritan, he resisted by ameliorating and trying to
reverse the effects of evil, ie the harm done to the man.

Luke 16:9
Make friends of unrighteous money so when ye fail they will take you into
their houses, prepare for the trials and problems of life. Be ready ahead of
time. God doesn't want you to sit around and expect him to take care of you
every time a problem comes up. He wants you to do all in your power to 1 forsee
the problems 2 avoid them if possible, 3 be prepared to go through them 4
trust in him to help you through them. My people perish for lack of
knowledge.

Luke 20:42
He quotes the book of Psalms, at least references to himself are valid,
as are, I suppose, several other verses. Psalms is the book that has the
(149) reference to carrying AK-47s in church and praising God.
%
Actually I tend to think perhaps it's not in church, because he also
mentions glory and bed just before that, so maybe he changed location
from the congregation.

Luke 22:35-38
Forsee and prepare for physical needs, obstacles, challenges, hindrances, etc.
%
JC said prepare for things by taking money, a scrip, and specifically mentions
a sword. 1 prepare for things before they happen, 2 specific mention of
weaponry. Finances, clothing, weaponry, scrip.
%
At the very least we know buying and owning and carrying weapons is not evil
or wrong or contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Bible. The next
fact to establish is their use and the particular uses acceptable to
God.

Luke 22:49
More than one was armed--no where did JC tell them to dispose of their
weapons.

Luke 24:25
Believe _all_ the prophets have spoken.

Luke 24:44
Law, prophets, psalms = OT.

John 1:45
Moses, law, prophets = OT. These were what they referred to as the
scriptures.

John 2:22
Scripture = OT. They believed BOTH--the scripture, ie OT, and the words
of Christ.

John 3:14
Moses = OT.

John 5:39
Scriptures = OT.

John 5:45-47
? (OT?)
%
47 The OT is the foundation and partial validation of Christ.

John 6:51
Fathers written (OT?)

John 6:32
Moses = OT.

John 6:45
Prophets = OT.

John 7:19
Moses, law--this reference is not about Christ being in the scriptures,
as most of them are so far, this one is simply a reference about the
law, ie OT, more specifically, the Pentateuch, in general.

John 7:22,23
(same as 7:19?)
%
This is a reference to before the law (was it??), that circumcision was
instituted. Abraham was before the law of Moses.

John 8:17
Law--a principle that is true to prove a point about something
(himself).

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(c) November 4, 1995, May 31, 1996 David C. Treibs. All rights reserved.

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