God and Guns: The Bible's Perspective on Personal Ownership and Use of Weapons, and Related Matters

God's sword (the Word) and ours (the rifle), superimposed over the Bible.(c) 1996, 1997 David C. Treibs, sirdavid@ktc.com

This page contains verse by verse commentary for Isaiah - Jeremiah 20, detailing what the Bible says about owning and using guns.

Isaiah 1:5
The crime will increase more and more until we return to God, because it
is a judgment. it is not the result of bad laws (that can make it worse,
no swift execution against evil-doers, etc) or bad items in the hands of
wrong people. Perhaps judgment in no other way than it is the fruit of
out deeds. We have sowed to the flesh and reaped the whirlwind. The only
way Isreal could be freed from the curse of oppressors and murderers was
to turn to God. Same for USA. Christians should heed this and shouldn't
be caught up in trying to end the crime and oppression by laws or more
oppression (police state, where the state does everything, and since it
can't do everything, it basically does nothing) especially since the
Bible is so favorable to weapon ownership, or more gun control, because
this crime will increase as long as our nation moves further away from
God, so instead we need to do what they did in the Bible when
threatened--protect and defend themselves and prepare and plan ahead,
because it will only worsen, and instead of eliminating our only means
of protecting ourselves, our families, our houses, etc (Nehemiah) we
need to arm ourselves.

Isaiah 1:17
We are commanded to relieve the oppressed

Isaiah 1:20-21
Death and destruction by sword--presumably crime or war--can be a judgment
from God (v. 21) when a nation rejects God, it becomes full of
murderers--abortionists, hit men, criminals. Or it could just be one of the
things God allows to happen, but if that's the case, it will be shown, because
the nation will grow closer to God, and the enemy will be defeated (but not
necessarily every time, just as a principle).
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Isaiah 1:20
Being devoured by the sword--crime, our own gov't, evil nations, is a
judgment from God and the natural consequences of doing evil.
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Isaiah 1:21
What happens when a nation rejects God: it fills with murderers. The
only way there can be murderers is if they murder someone. The only ones
who can be murdered are innocent people. That means when a nation
rejects God, lots of innocent people are murdered...babies, etc.
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That is to say that the innocent are destroyed.

Isaiah 1:23
The weak are destroyed and harmed when a nation rejects God.
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They are so busy serving themselves and grabbing all the gusto
they can for themselves, watching game shows, buying lottery tickets,
etc, they don't have time to help those in need.
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"followeth after rewards" they do what they do for the rewards and
benefits, not because it's right. Evidence that the nation has left God.
This is also a definition of the wicked, because God says there is no
more righteousness in the city, and it is full of wicked, evil people
(Is 1:21). In addressing personal weapons and crime and self defense,
and how to stay alive, you must address the causes and how to defend the
innocent, stop the wicked, etc, and this brings up these verses of why
so many innocent are being destroyed and preyed upon--the nation has
left God and the consequences of that are evident here.
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It doesn't say, here anyway, that they are raping, murdering, pillaging,
and burning (maybe they are stealing). It just says they are not helping
those it is within their power to help, and they are set on pursuing
pleasure and gain at other's expense, and totally self-centered, without
serving God.

Isaiah 2:3-5
We can eliminate our weapons only AFTER verses 3 and 5 happen, and that
hasn't happened yet. We will have no NEED for weapons after 3 happens, but
until then we need weapons. This is a generic we--nations and individuals will
use weapons until that time, and if we are around, we will need to be prepared
for them to be used against us.

Isaiah 3:1-3
When God judges a nation he removes those who can help the nation,
(Josiah, etc), and this is a list of very good men, including a "mighty
man" (great warrior), a man of war, and a captain. These are included in
the list with bread and water, a judge, a prophet, a counselor, a
craftsman (or is that really an enchanter?) and an orator. I think these
are all great people who help the community and make it a better place
and without them it is a worse place.
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Artificer: can figuratively mean expert killer, ie, warrior.

Isaiah 3:5
The people will be oppressed as a result of God's judgment for
sin--including the poor, old people, wise and good (honorable) people,
and such.
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When a nation is wicked, they are all oppressors. You can't escape
oppression. The oppression is because they are evil and have forsaken
God and love sin, not because of weapons.

Isaiah 3:9
The evil came about because of what they did--sin, leave God--not
because of guns, etc.

Isaiah 3:14
The poor are spoiled.
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It is a symptom of an evil nation when the poor are spoiled and harmed
and oppressed. It is because of sin, not weapons, even in the area of
crime. The solution is to return to God, seek justice, execute it
quickly, remove the wicked, etc, not disarm the poor. That would be
spoiling them more.

Isaiah 3:15
God's people and the poor suffer.
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They are beaten to pieces, have their faces ground, and God doesn't
stop it.

Isaiah 5:29
29 Their roaring [shall be] like a lion, they shall roar
like young lions: yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the
prey, and shall carry [it] away safe, and none shall deliver
[it].

Isaiah 7:2
2 And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is
confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the
heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with
the wind.

Isaiah 8:9-10
9. Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be
broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries:
gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird
yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.
10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought;
speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God [is] with
us.

Isaiah 8:17
17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face
from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.

Isaiah 9:9-13
9 And all the people shall know, [even] Ephraim and the
inhabitant of Samaria, that say in the pride and stoutness
of heart,
10 The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn
stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change [them
into] cedars.
11 Therefore the LORD shall set up the adversaries of
Rezin against him, and join his enemies together;
12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and
they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his
anger is not turned away, but his hand [is] stretched out
still.

Isaiah 9:13-17
13 For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them,
neither do they seek the LORD of hosts.
14 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and
tail, branch and rush, in one day.
15 The ancient and honourable, he [is] the head; and the
prophet that teacheth lies, he [is] the tail.
16 For the leaders of this people cause [them] to err; and
[they that are] led of them [are] destroyed.
17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young
men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and
widows: for every one [is] an hypocrite and an evildoer, and
every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not
turned away, but his hand [is] stretched out still.

Isaiah 10:1-2
1. Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that
write grievousness [which] they have prescribed;
2 To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away
the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be
their prey, and [that] they may rob the fatherless!

Isaiah 10:15-19
15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth
therewith? [or] shall the saw magnify itself against him
that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake [itself] against
them that lift it up, [or] as if the staff should lift up
[itself, as if it were] no wood.
16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among
his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a
burning like the burning of a fire.
17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his
Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his
thorns and his briers in one day;
18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his
fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as
when a standardbearer fainteth.
19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few,
that a child may write them.

Isaiah 13:15-16
15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and
every one that is joined [unto them] shall fall by the
sword.
16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before
their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives
ravished.

Isaiah 13:18
18 [Their] bows also shall dash the young men to pieces;
and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their
eye shall not spare children.

Isaiah 26:10
10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, [yet] will he not
learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal
unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.

Isaiah 26:12
God works through us.
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Organize it all around NT stuff as much as possible, assuming the major
audience is Christians. If Jews, they will probably be able to pick out
what they want, but it's the Christians who comprise the majority of
those who need to adopt the pro-gun, defend-the-innocent mentality.

Isaiah 28:6
God helps those in battle, is their strength, helps them beat the enemy.
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Assuming this refers to God, he can both work judgment--ie dispense
justice through the law, and help a person clobber the enemy, both at
the same time without being contradictory in character. Notice this
isn't a defensive action, it is an offensive attack on the enemy's home
territory, the gate of the city--meaning they mean to attack the city.
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This is another example of God working through us using weapons, force,
violence, and killing.

Isaiah 30:1-3,7
Strength that intentionally leaves out God will fail, and God himself
will cause it to fail, if only by allowing the natural consequences to
take full effect.
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Notice also that the Egyptions are not only Godless, their gods are
devils. There were asking help of those who disregarded God instead of
asking God for help or God's people.
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7 Strength to sit still is obviously bad, because it is no help at all,
it is "vain" and "to no purpose," which is like confusing trusting God
plus doing doing nothing or remaining intentionally weak, helpless,
vulnerable, etc (Of course, we know missionaries and such may take a
different tak.).

Isaiah 30:8-12
Oppression of the just supposedly to help the poor or save the poor and
defend the poor, etc.
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Notice--if you turn from God, don't trust in him, you will trust in
oppression and perverseness. Perhaps it works both ways--if you trust in
oppression and perverseness (ie Bill Clinton) perhaps it is because you
don't trust God.
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Esther: Just because God would have found another avenue if she had
failed to act to save the Jews, didn't mean she didn't have to do it, or
that God didn't put her where she was for the purpose of saving the
Jews. Just because there were other means didn't exempt her. She had to
do everything she could do, the Jews had to do everything they could do,
to prepare to fight on the fateful day.

Isaiah 30:22
Some objects are counted as evil, although within themselves, as Paul
says, they may not be evil, but the power behind them is--and these are
to be destroyed, but not weapons or things like that. Yes, they are
items used to commit wickedness, but they cannot be be used for good,
and demon spirits are not attached to many other things. But, remember
the idol meat, and how they could use items that pass through the fire,
ie furnace, and not be burned up, but other times couldn't even use any
of it, had to burn it all up, sometimes it was God executing his
wrath--if they didn't surrender, kill them all and burn everything, if
they surrendered, make them slaves, unless they were of the 7 nations,
and the Lord said destroy them because they were so utterly wicked. In
one city they had to destroy it all, a little farther over in another
city they might keep and use the very same objects they had destroyed in
the other city.

Isaiah 31:1-3
Don't strengthen yourself without God, don't exclude him, and don't seek
help from those who do either, and don't help those who don't seek God.
Of course, you have to balance this with helping the defenseless and
defending your country.
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2 Are you the libertarian/libertine/anarchist type--you want to sin and
disregard God's law and do whatever you want without restraint and then
challenge the gov't when it's tyrannical? God will not be on your side,
unless it is for the sake of someone else, such as his people,
(see Is 30:1-7)
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Just like not all those who came out of Egypt were of Israel, but God
helped, fed, delivered, protected the shoes, etc of them simply because
they were in with the true Israelites.

Isaiah 31:6
May be a key--they not only didn't have anything to do with God, they
deeply revolted and turned from him--nevertheless, remember God's
judgment against those who destroyed Israel and God's destruction of
those who didn't help Israel when they were being destroyed, and even
though it was God's judgment that was causing them to be destroyed.
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For verses 1-3, remember that God helped ungodly Israel (was it Ahab?)
because the God-fearing king was with him (gave them water) but didn't
let them win the battle.

Isaiah 31:7 OBJECTS
Objects to be cast away--idolatry.

Isaiah 32:6
The poor and hungry are harmed by the wicked.
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Defines the wicked--no mention of weapons--it's what they do, not what
they use to do it.
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1. Proves the helpless and innocent are harmed and destroyed.
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2. Defines the wicked and wickedness: those who destroy the innocent,
etc
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3. Lets us know that it is up to us to some extent to defend the
helpless.

Isaiah 32:17-18
Don't use these verses to negate the others that isn't here yet, because
there is no peace to the wicked, and there will be no peace until God
himself brings it in, because in this world we will have trouble and
suffer persecution and tribulation.
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When the land is full of righteousness there is peace within, and when a
man's ways please God he will make even his enemies be at peace with
him.

Isaiah 34:5-6 GOD AND ANGELS ARMED
God's weapon. This doesn't seem to be the same sword spoken of in Revelation,
ie his word.

Isaiah 37:36
God's angel slaughtered thousands of soldiers--God is a man of war--this
was a divine act of God, not just a plague or a great man who God used.
Remember Exodus 20 (Thou shalt not kill (?)).

Isaiah 41:2-3
God gave this person (or was it Abraham or the nation of Israel? not
sure, may even be Christ) power in his weapons to win.
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God helped him fight, but he had to do the fighting. God directly worked
through a person to commit violence, death, and use of weapons, and God
held no anger against him as he did against the Babylonians who God used
to commit violence against his people. The difference seems to be based
precisely on God's word: violence against God's people or against the
innocent brings his wrath, even if he uses you do to it, but violence
against the evil or those who harm his people does not bring God's
wrath, and might even bring God's blessings.

Isaiah 42:24-25
Robbers because forsake God--are more wicked in the land therefore more
wickedness.
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To deal with crime, repentence must be part of the formula, as well as
following God's laws and principles.

Isaiah 47:6
The wicked make the old suffer.
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Judgment for those who executed God's wrath against Israel--it is never
to harm the innocent, or even destroy the guilty without following the
proper guidelines. It is never right to attack God's nation.

Isaiah 48:22
Somebody else said the same thing.

Isaiah 49:2
Militant language.
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He is God's sword in God's hand, he is God's arrow in God's quiver. God
is armed, or at least in this case he has no objections to being
described as having personal weapons--sword and bow and arrow.
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Therefore it is proper at least for God to own weapons and of course use
them.
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Next prove it is OK for us to have and use weapons.
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Also, the prophet is compared to a sword and arrow that God uses, so it
couldn't be that we may not be associated with weapons at all, although
this verse doesn't go much farther than that.

Isaiah 49:24-25
Israel is punished for their sins, but God will save them and restore
them, and even though they are lawfully captive for their sin, he will
still save them, and he will rescue them from the mighty.
Just because God's people are under the power of the mighty evil doesn't
mean we can't through Christ free them, and even if someone is a lawful
prisoner, that doesn't mean we don't have the right and duty to loose
them.

Isaiah 51:17,19
The sword is God's punishment for sin. When a Christian sees evil nation
attacking and much crime, he shouldn't call for gun control, but for
repentance, and for elimination of the wicked, and for the righteous to
be in power, and they need to be very wise, and persist and endure, and
help and protect the poor, needy, innocent.
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19 These are what happen when a nation rejects God--both natural and
divine consequences.
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Violence (destruction, sword)--when the land is full of it, check to see
if have forsaken God and repent, don't just try to deal with the surface
problems: crime, etc.
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A side note, God mentions using people to do his work "by whom" shall I
do the work. Another example of God doing his work through us, in this
case comforting them.

Isaiah 54:14
Righteousness and no oppression go together (also no fear, no terror).
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Sin and oppression also go together. Those (Libertarians, etc) who want
sin but don't want oppression will be disappointed, because with sin
comes eventual oppression and destruction, including destruction of
those you want to protect.

Isaiah 57:1
The righteous also are destroyed. Perhaps God allows this as a
punishment of the nation, because the fewer righteous, the worse it will
be with the nation, precisely because there wil be no one to stand up
for the nation no matter what the odds, because that is what the
righteous do, they stand up for their nation no matter what, and they
use God's wisdom, which is highly effective, and therefore God doesn't
want them around helping the nation, so he takes them home.
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This is reason to fight even against hopeless odds: if we die it is
probably because God took us home.
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This also lets us know it is OK to die of fighting (it is "no disgrace,"
Keep On The Firing Line).
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If we die in battle like Josiah that doesn't mean we did evil or were
out of God's will, it means we died doing that which was commanded us
and we are unprofitable servants--and God decided to take us home.
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It doesn't mean we did wrong if we die in battle. If God is going to
judge the nation, it could be 1. to spare us the evil, 2. to remove the
nation's help.

Isaiah 57:5
The innocent and helpless (children) are destroyed by the wicked.
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You know the nation is wicked when your own people destroy your children
instead of marauding bands of barbarians and invaders.

Isaiah 57:19-21
No peace to the wicked, or to the nation that is full of wickedness.
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Isaiah also said v.21 previously.
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The wicked make a mess of everything (mire and dirt).

Isaiah 58:6
_We_ are to loose, undo, and let go and break (no gentleness there).
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We are _required_ to do all this.
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This is one for the NT people--yes, feed the hungry (v.7), clothe the
naked, bring in the poor (v.7), etc, but also don't leave out
v.6--loose, undo, let go, and break whatever can't be easily undone. If
the yoke can't be untied, then break it off.
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This is part of our holy service to God. It is part of fasting and other
holy acts of serving and worshipping God. Also note that feeding and
clothing the needy is on the same level as breaking yokes and stopping
wickedness.
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There is nothing unholy or ungodly about breaking yokes violently and
vehemently, and maybe even using weapons to do it.
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EVERY yoke, not just the ones that are convenient for us, just like
Joshua was to destroy all the heathen nations (the 7) and subdue the
rest. But he didn't, and they suffered deeply, just like we will if we
don't break EVERY yoke, and deal with the wicked and make sure the
wicked oppress and harm no one, and make sure the helpless and weak are
empowered to protect themselves (armed), etc.

Isaiah 58:7
_We_ are to deal _our_ bread, bring the poor, cover them (protect and
cover, from harm, cold, wicked people, etc)
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Take care of your own family--as in NT verse to provide for your own.
Note that providing for your own is no better or holier than breaking
yokes, loosening, etc. This doesn't change in the NT--breaking yokes
isn't downgraded to unholy or not quite as good or holy--it remains on
the same level of being very pleasing to God and REQUIRED by him.

Isaiah 58:9-10
God will answer our cry if _we_ take away the yoke, (oppression,
bondage, etc), help the hungry, satisfy the afflicted.
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We can't pray and expect God to do it all. God will hear our prayers if
we do all these things. So much for those who say we aren't supposed to
do these things. We are required to.
*This is all part of repentence!!*
If you do II Chr 7:14, you also have to do this, because it is part of
repentence and it is part of God's holy service, just like serving in
the temple, etc.

Isaiah 58:13
Delight in the Lord and his commands, including all the above.
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Perhaps all the above is God's pleasure and not our own ways nor our own
pleasure nor our own words. In doing the above we are doing God's work,
his pleasure (which it says for the commandment about the sabbath: we
are not to do our work but God's) honoring him, his holy work.
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Likely this is part of one of the 10 commandments to Honor the Sabbath
to keep it holy!!! If we have to use weapons, and be like in Ps 149, we
can say carring and owning and using weapons is part of that commandment
also, because we need them to loose and undo and break yokes and help
the poor and needy and defend the weak from the wicked.
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The important thing--like no demi-god or demi-devil (ie weapons are only
tools) --is that we do God'swork, not so much what we do with it.

Isaiah 59:1-4
It isn't that God can't help, it's just that the nation is full of sin
and murder and nobody is trying to deal justice to the murderers and the
murdered, so God allows verse 8 (last part)--15 happens.
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Murder, iniquity, lies, perverseness are in the same list as not calling
for justice or pleading for truth--not doing what's right is just as bad
as doing wrong--and God won't hear you if you don't do what's right even
if you don't do what's wrong.

Isaiah 59:6-8
Violence is not really defined, but v.7 sheds a little more light on
it--they shed innocent blood, and they waste and destroy (it doesn't say
what, but we can take a clue from the "innocent blood" to conclude they
destroy good and they "run to evil". V.8 says they don't know the way of
peace, which reminds me of "there is not peace to the wicked" which
infers these are wicked people.
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Iniquity, violence, evil, innocent blood, wasting, destruction, no
judgment, crooked paths, no peace. These are all evil, and by the
grouping, we can conclude, unlike in 59:1-4 that whatever is listed here
is just as bad as the rest, that what we are talking about is those
things that are sinful, that harm the innocent, that violate God's laws.
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Here is an important distinction. Sometimes we look at a list and see
that all in it are alike and we can conclude that one is as evil as the
other. In other lists we see that all in the list are of a certain type,
that is, they all tend to the destruction of the innocent, as opposed to
self-defense or that which is good. We do not conclude that all violence
is bad, but we conclude based on the list that this is violence of a
particular nature--against God's will. Other types of violence we know
from elsewhere that this good violence is not part of this list. Most of
the time good violence is not referred to by the term violence, as in
the "violent man," who is evil, but David destroys his enemy, and I
don't recall if he uses the term violence in these cases.
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VIOLENCE

Isaiah 59:9
Therefore, because all of the above, and because of v.4--no one tries to
make all the above right, and several other things, they suffer.
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1. The nation is full of wickedness.
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2. No one does anything about it.

Isaiah 59:13
Oppression--must be of good people--doing things that will make them
suffer and put them at the mercy of the wicked--includes disarming them
to make them helpless.
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Revolt--against whom? Doesn't say, but it couldn't be revolt against the
wicked, because he just finished chiding them for not dealing with the
wicked.
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Transgressing and lying against God--add these to the list above in
59:6-8 to give an even more complete picture of the character of this
people, which should give an idea of exactly what type of violence,
wasting, and destruction they practice--it is predatory, contrary to
God's word, aimed at self-serving, sinful, evil ends.

Isaiah 59:15
There is so much unchecked evil that if someone turns from it he
suffers--that means evil has predominance over good (who was king at
this time?) Perhaps the rulers are evil. And there's no judgment and no
fight by the good to right things. We must fight against evil and work
to bring judgment and justice, because if there is none we will suffer
worse than Israel (we are not God's chosen nation).
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Add these also to the list in 59:6-8,13--whoever departs from evil falls
prey to these people--if they were righteous practicers of violence,
they would defend and encourage and seek to turn to God those who
depart from evil, but these people destroy the good and those who
repent.

Isaiah 59:16
When God saw all this, he brought Christ--might be an argument from some
that this means we don't have to do anything, because since Christ came,
now there is judgment and all that, he put on vengeance (v17), he will
repay (v 18), he will cause them to fear the Lord (v.19), and he will
come to Israel and to all those who fear God(20) and so all we have to
do is win them to Christ, and then he will take care of the rest. (Maybe
this is to give those who are suffering and being destroyed some comfort
and consolation that it someday there will be justice and every wrong
will be righted.)
Just remember, few there be that enter the strait gate, and the wicked
of Rev and so on will not turn even though God will smite them.
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God is very displeased when no one stands up for right and justice and
truth. We must stand in the gap and make up the hedge!

Isaiah 60:18-22
This isn't true yet--there is still violence, so this hasn't been
fulfilled yet (esp the part about violence--God will bring it in HIS
time.
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18-19 When the sun and moon are no longer necessary to lighten Israel,
then we can figure that verse 18, no more violence, is fulfilled, but
not until then.

Isaiah 61:1-4
This sounds pretty close to a fulfillment of everything we are to
do--preach good tidings to the meek, bind up the brokenhearted, proclaim
liberty to the captives, free the bound, to comfort the mourning, to
appoint beauty for ashes, etc. And if we are to follow Christ's example
and give them the good news of his liberty (2 Corinth 3:17) then some
might argue that's all we have to do, and that will be good enough to
fulfill the commands to help the helpless. While to some extent this is
true and freedom from sin and peace with God and no more oppression from
the devil and victory over the old nature is the greatest victory, and
if we have no other victory than that, we have the greatest gifts from
God, that doesn't negate the other part of physical rescuing and
protecting and freeing. But it does demonstrate what is the greater--by
far--thing, and what Christ came to do. he came to make peace between
God and man, and triumph over sin, the devil, death, and hell. But that
doesn't mean we no longer have to feed the poor or any of the other
things related to the physical that we are still supposed to do. Many
Christians want to say now it is _all_ spiritual and we have to do
nothing else, but they miss the boat, and their withdrawal from society
has caused great problems, or they will pick some physical
actions--feeding, clothing, but leave out others like freeing, breaking
yokes, opening prisons, rescuing, etc. See the Schaeffer works and John
Whitehead.

Isaiah 65:7
If God measures to us the former work of us plus our fathers, God help
us! 30 million abortions? And we haven't cleansed our land in any
way--by forgiveness or by shedding the blood of the blood shedder.
%
As a man and a nation soweth, that shall they also reap. That's another
reason why repentence is so important, we don't want to reap the sins of
ourselves or our fathers, and if we repent God might grant us some
ameliorating of the reaping of our sins, or at least he will help us
through it.

Isaiah 65:11-12
The sword is God's judgment those who turn from him and choose evil.
%
Isaiah 65:12
Being killed by the enemy is a judgment of God. When the enemy prevails, it is
a sign that God isn't helping you win the fight.

Isaiah 66:16 COMPARE, GOD'S WEAPONS
God kills with his weapons.
%
*** God's weapons (not sure if it is his mouth or his sword. In any
event, if it is his mouth, it is a comparison of his holy, precious word
that created the universe to a personal weapon, an object of violence
and death.) Previously we've seen God's most precious
gifts--children--also compared to personal weaponry: bows and
arrows.

Jeremiah 2:19-20
Our own wickedness will punish us--we elected Clinton, so we suffer.
%
19 We will reap the consequences of our sins, because sin destroys a
nation. Since the greatest command is to love God with all your heart,
it follows that the worst sin is to forsake him and not fear him, and
the consequences of this are very "evil and bitter" indeed! Repentence
must be part of every freedom fighter's objectives and battle plans and
personal life. See George Washington.
%
20 God is the one who breaks yokes and bursts bands--we must have him on
our team to win, or we will not (he working through us) succeed in
bursting bands and breaking yokes.

Jeremiah 2:30
Yet, he doesn't say disarm, he says repent.
%
30 Here is today's situation! The use of weapons to destroy the
righteous and good and innocent. What is the prescription? Disarm? No!
It is repent, and deal justice to the wicked (don't hurt the good
(register, tax, regulate, spy on, harass) and hope that deals with the
wicked) and defend the innocent!
%
Perhaps also, when a nation is wicked it will turn it's own weapons (like the
Midianites and Gideon (?)) upon itself, and especially on the righteous and
those standing against evil. But the message is never disarm, that would make
the righteous even more vulnerable, but repent.

Jeremiah 2:34
The innocent are destroyed.
%
Billboards advertise abortions. This also could be at least partly the
blood shed in v.30--but I think it's more than just the prophets, this
is all the innocents who are destroyed, and whom no one defends.

Jeremiah 5:3
God corrected them but they didn't repent.
%
When there is grevious suffering, it is time to repent, _and_ it is time
to return to God's word and truth and the principles of it for each
individual and for us as a nation.

Jeremiah 5:1
We must stand in the gap spiritually as well as physically--in fact, if
we don't stand spiritually, we might not succeed when we stand
physically.
%
No matter what the odds, no matter what the outcome, we must stand for
what is right, we must do our best to put God's word ("executeth
judgment") into practice.
%
Even if we are the only ones left to stand, God might pardon our nation
and use us to turn it around. We might end up being stoned to death like
the prophets, but whichever happens, is at least partly up to God.

Jeremiah 5:6
They will be violently killed (by beasts).
%
An evil people will be slain, spoiled (have their goods taken and
anything else of value (like God-given rights)) taken, they will be
watched over by something waiting for the opportunity to take them (like
the IRS looking at everything you do to see if you made one slip and
then they will nail you, and the secretly-spy-on-the-American-people
powers of the Terrorism Act of the FBI, etc, and criminals (not that
there's much difference between criminals and feds or even state or city
agencies) also.

Jeremiah 5:10-11
Defenses and protection and means to be free from the enemy's hurt will
be damaged and/or removed.
%
Here's another case where gun control of sorts is a judgment of God.

Jeremiah 5:15-17
Evil people will come, their weapons will be very powerful, you won't be
able to resist.
%
15 Can't decipher the Federal Register, the Internal Revenue Code, the
statutes, the bureaucratic regulations.
%
16 Armed evil people. The solution is repent and destroy the wicked, not
the disarm the good and hope that transforms the evil into good people.
17. Tax you to death, and if you don't pay up, 200 men with machine guns
will take you away, confiscate your home, throw you in prison, and shoot
you and your family if you resist.

Jeremiah 5:26-29
Harming the good people is what the wicked do, and God will punish the
nation for allowing them to destroy the innocent. That means we better
stop the wicked from harming the innocent, and we better not enable the
wicked to harm the innocent (by disarming the innocent, etc).
%
First, we should not allow the wicked who do these things to be among
us.
Second, we should stop them from doing this evil and preying on the poor
and innocent.
%
It is wickedness not only to sin, but also to NOT dispense justice.

Jeremiah 6:6
The city is full of oppression (it isn't stopped by anyone (5:1)),
therefore destroy it.
%
To avoid God's destruction of our nation, fight oppression, bring
repentence, defend those who need it, bring justice.

Jeremiah 6:7
Destruction of the innocent, harm to the helpless.
%
Sin is rampant (people doing evil to others), everyone is become a prey
to some other evil person bent on doing his own thing without regard to
others or to God.

Jeremiah 6:22-26
God's punishment is that evil, armed people shall come, and all the
people will be afraid of them--just like now, all the country is afraid
of crime, the gov't, etc.
%
25 "the sword of the enemy" The problem is that it is wielded by the
enemy against them, not that it exists.

Jeremiah 7:5-7,9
Stop doing evil and oppressing the poor and shedding innocent blood,
(and stop those who do it) and you will be blessed. And, _throughly_
defend the innocent, not just half heartedly.
Murder the innocent.

Jeremiah 8:14-16
Because of sin they are invaded and fearful--we might never be invaded,
but then again, if our military is weakened enough and we have riots or
revolution or "civil rights violations," the UN might invade us, ie, our
own troops would be used against us. Or the evil and wicked people who
are already here might become the rulers and oppress and destroy us that
way.
%
15 There is no peace to the wicked! Nor is their any peace for a sinful
nation. We will NOT have peace within our borders or otherwise as long
as we are full of sin, unrepentant, and have our back turned to God.
Neither will our individuals have peace. First, because God will not
allow it, second, because sin brings destruction and death and
suffering, and being unrepentant, we allow sin to flourish, and it
destroys us.
%
16 The strong evil ones come because of v.14 last part (sinned against
the Lord).

Jeremiah 9:23-24
Don't glory in your strength, but that you know God and you execute
judgment and righteousness--which included bringing justice and defense
to the innocent.
%
23 "wisdom" "might" "riches"
24 "lovingkindness" "judgment" "righteousness"
%
But he doesn't tell the wiseman to become stupid, the mighty man to
become weak, or the rich man to become poor.
%
Comparison.
%
Also, we can see that wisdom, riches, and might (ability to fight in
violent, physical combat) are all put in the list, and none are
condemned. They might all be on the same level--can be used for good or
evil. Note God says he delights more in lovingkindness, judgment (oops
to all those don't-judge-anyone folks) and righteousness. That's not to
say you have to have one or the other, but there are "not many mighty"
(see NT allusion), not many wise in this world, not many rich, but all
can be righteous, etc.
%
And the best is to be all of them--wise and and full of lovingkindness,
mighty and full of judgment, rich and full of righteousness.

Jeremiah 12:12 GOD'S WEAPONS
The sword of the Lord in this case is pretty clearly the wicked--there
is no peace for the wicked nation. We have wicked rulers, wicked people
for judges, wicked people running businesses, wicked people running
around in the streets. They are both the natural consequences of our
sins, and God's divine judgment. In fact, God's judgment might simply be
to let the natural consequences take effect, instead of "letting" and
dampening the effects as he might do if he were having mercy on us.
%
Those who want to be "blessed...peacemakers" need a different approach
to make peace under the above paragraph circumstances than simply to try
to make peace with the wicked.
%
For one thing, the wicked and the good can never reconcile. The wicked
can repent, but that's the only way there will be peace between them
(any more than God and the devil can be reconciled) unless the wicked
wipe out or silence all the just, then there will be kinda peace,
because the righteous won't be fighting the wicked.
%
The nation needs to repent. Then they need to practice "God's fast"
(Isa?), where they feed, clothe, break yokes. Then they need to "put
away evil from you," dispense swift and sure judgment to the wicked,
defend the innocent, etc.
%
===
%
Punishing the just and the righteous is wrong.
%
(The just would stand in the gap and make up the hedge for their nation,
and be righteous. If you're not doing these, you might not be just.
Also, the just _will_ suffer with the rest of the nation when it reaps
destruction because of the sin it has sown.
%
Punishing someone for another person's crime is wrong (disarm them)
Put in jail for doing things that is only a problem when the wicked do
them.
%
Leaving the righteous vulnerable to the wicked, or forcing them to be
vulnerable, is wrong.
%
Treating the just the same as the wicked is wrong. Among other things,
it is treating the just and the evil the same, and it is being unable to
tell good from evil.
%
===
%
Guns involve several issues:
force and none
deadly force and none
violence and none
resisting evil and not
rescuing others and not rescuing others

Jeremiah 15:2
The punishments for a wicked nation: death, sword, famine,
captivity--look at the sins and repent, don't ignore them, focusing
solely on the 4 consequences and try only to stop them without the
repenting part.
%
===
%
God send Israel many saviours and deliverers after they repented (not
ever, I think, did they all repent), but God's strong ones were always
working to deliver the nation in whatever capacity they could--Jeremiah
prayed to God a lot and warned the people. I don't think most of them
had a word from God that if they would fight, God would help them win. I
think most of them saw the need and determined to do what they could,
and God blessed their efforts and made them successful. Some of them God
did tell that they would succeed, but I don't think most of them had any
such revelations. Check it out as to how many did and didn't.

Jeremiah 16:9
The Lord of armies.

Jeremiah 17:5,7
Don't trust man, don't make your flesh your strength, like Rambo or
Charles Bronson, etc (God must be it, not yourself or your guns or
someone else's), and don't turn from God.
%
But that doesn't mean don't use your weapons, that just means trust God
while you use your weapons, and use them according to his word, and live
your life by it.
%
EVIL OBJECTS, HINDERING EVIL
How do you make it hard for people to not do evil? By removing what they
use to do evil? By making severe punishments for those who do evil? As I
recall, the only things that are to be destroyed aare those associated
with idolatry, devil worship, and human sacrifice, and those societies
(7) that were immersed in these practives. All the other crimes were
delt with by severe punishment, even though they sometimes used things
to accomplish their deeds. No king is ever instructed to disarm God's
people.
%
Porno is sexually aberrant behavior which often leads to vise, abuse,
immorality.
%
Focus on protecting the innocent or stopping the evil-doers--is this a
false set of choices?
%
Make it hard for the wicked to do evil--the liberals, who don't really
believe in evil, would say give normal people the chance to do evil, to
give them an environment in which they are enabled to do wrong.
This is by preventing or making it hard for anyone to harm others by
removing what can be used to harm others (they would disagree that
porno, etc is harmful). On the one hand they would say that people
cannot control themselves and should not be expected to control
themselves, and lack of self-control is not wrong, and when they don't
control themselves, it's not their fault (they are not responsible and
should not be punished), it the environment, what was available to them,
etc.
%
So part of their argument deals with human nature--are we out of control
animals who cannot be held responsible for our actions and we must be
taken care of like animals or those in psych wards--ie, cannot be given
sharp items or what could be used as weapons--or are we created in the
image of God with the ability 1. to know right from wrong, and 2. to
have the ability to choose to do right ("that I would, I do not"--Paul)?
%
So to say should we focus on protecting the innocent or stopping the
guilty is really asking which way should we choose to view people--as
responsible, moral agents who sometimes do wrong at their choice and
therefore must be delt with accordingly, or animals who really only do
what they do by instincts and because of the environment, and so the
goal is to make the environment as untempting as possible (although this
argument does have merit because of our proclivity to do evil--steal,
rape, etc. We are "desperately wicked," our hearts are "set to do only
evil continually," we have "althogether corrupted" ourselves.
%
We also know that human nature is fallen and that people will fall into
temptation easily, so it is important for us to flee temptation and to
put away our old nature. This is where a good argument can be found--do
we remove the temptation since we fall easily, or do we put the
responsibility on the individual and leave it up to them to flee the
temptation--then say don't, and punish them accordingly.
%
has no legitimate uses individual responsiblility
or make it difficult encourage good behavior
prevent sin discourage bad behavior
stop moral decay punish wrong behavior
remove temptation
don't feed human depravity
%
The question is how do you decide between the Libertarian view, which
puts everything (telling girls to dress modestly to cover up their stuff
so guys don't so easily think things about them, improving the
environment to improve behavior)--all the responsibility on the
individual and removes no temptations (also they don't think certain
things or most things are wrong...and our view which says some behaviors
are wrong--sexual deviancy--and certain articles contributing to it are
bad, ie, porno, and so we must stop the immorality, and what is
encouraging it, even though the individual had a free choice to do it or
not, and to use the articles or not, and even some who don't use the
articles still commit the crimes, and some who se the articles don't
commit the crimes (but they do sin), we say the articles must be
eliminated...verses, in another instance we say the articles are not
inherently wrong--guns--even though they are sometimes used to commit
crimes, and sometimes not, because the choice to do wrong lies with the
individual, and those who don't commit crimes don't sin like those using
porno, and some who commit the crime may have been the Sarah Brady types
("feel the power surge through you as you pick up the gun," remember
that letter?) who might actually be encouraged by an object to commit a
crime.
%
The only conclusions I can draw about porno, why it doesn't fit into the
category o free moral agent vs animal needing control is that 1. it
always produces sin which frequently (a relative and somewhat
unproveable word) is foisted upon others (rape, prostitution,
immorality) and 2. it is close to the category of sexual sins like
fornication and adultery because you are looking on the nakedness
(drinking stolen waters, drinking from another fountain, dispersing your
waters abroad (?)) of someone besides your spouse--and that is a
forbidden sexual act.
%
Then the question remains, what criteria do we establish on objects or
substances to determine what is neutral and can be used for good or
evil, and which should be left alone, and what is evil and must be
eliminated, or what can be used for either, and is used enough for evil
that it should be controlled: alcohol, drugs, guns, porno, crytography,
hunting, etc. Some involve constitutionally enumerated rights: guns,
crypto, some are not always destructive in a large enough scale but are
warned against in the Bible (alcohol), some are not directly warned
against but are used frequently with idolatry, devil worship, and
sacrifice (drugs)--they can cause people to do things they normally
wouldn't do, evil things, like those on alcohol tend to be immoral,
violent, etc, as warned in the Bible, and can be abused or abusive more
easily when on drugs, especially for occult acts, etc.
%
If we look from a "practical" standpoint, ie by how much damage is done
to society, then for porno we have to demostrate the harm done and show
a link between crime rates and porno and strip joints, and show that
that is bad enough to merit outlawing. On the other hand of guns, we have
to trott out Gary Kleck and argue about the validity of his statistics
and try to show that guns are more benificial than harmful (which, as
society becomes more and more evil, will be more and more difficult to
do, because there will be more and more evil people around to commit
evil acts, often using guns; which is one reason why this sort of
arguing is dangerous--even if there's only 1 innocent person in the
country and all the rest are evil predators who are committing lots of
violent crime and the evil done using firearms is much more than the
good, that should be an indication that guns are more necessary than
they were when the good deeds committed using guns outnumbered the bad
deeds, because that 1 innocent person is now even more likely to be a
victim and needs weapons to defend himself from all those evil people),
and the other side will whip out their stats to demonstrate the
contrary. Or we will whip out the Constitution and show that no matter
what damage is done it doesn't matter because of the RTKBA, then we have
to deal with those wanting to repeal the 2nd A.

Jeremiah 17:7
Cursed is the man who trusts in man, including self and self efforts, instead
of God, blessed is the God truster, the trust is not in the weapon or the self
any more than David trusted in his sling, Joshua in his soldiers, (see Heb
11), Abraham in his army, Esther in the king's and the Jew's power, Nehemiah
in his workers' abilities to build or fight, etc.
%
Even though they all trusted God, they all still did the work. In fact,
it was BECAUSE they trustd God that they did the work. Just like because
we trust God and know his word, we know we are supposed to defend the
innocent and deal with the wicked and carry a sword and psalter. The
really tough part is when you live where you have no access to weapons
and you still have to defend the innocent.

Jeremiah 18:8-10
If the nation repents, God will save it--the emphasis is on sin and
righteousness.
%
God thought to do good to the USA, but we do evil, now God will allow
evil, and will also bring evil upon us--so we repent.
%
===
%
Should the gov't protect us without us being able to protect
ourselves--all power and means of protection lie with gov't or should we
be able to protect ourselves and gov't help us too--the choice is
whether or not the individual will be able to defend himself.
%
===
%
Also, will you focus on protecting the innocent or punishing the
wicked--enable the innocent (arm them, may arm the bad guys too and
enable them to harm the innocent (but if they are all armed, or have the
opportunity to be, might have less chance they will be harmed than the
2nd option)) or disable the wicked (may disarm the innocent in the
process, and disable them from defending themselves, ie ensure their
unnecessary death or suffering)

Jeremiah 18:7-11
Repent when you see the nation collapsing.
%
11 The evil we experience is to cause us to return to God, or is the
consequence of someone's sin, or is the consequence of us not following
God's principles for life, or is because we live in a fallen
world--earthquakes, tidalwaves, droughts, etc.

Jeremiah 19:3-4,7
When the land is full of the blood of the innocent, it is in trouble!
Therefore, you better defend them. If not, the people will die by
violence, including _more_ of the innocent.
%
Also, discusses enemies, and those that seek their lives, such as
criminals, Jack Kevorkian, etc
%
7 Suffering violence from armed people is a result of sin and is
((?)used, ended?) by repentence--but note, just like you can't trust God
by doing nothing, so also your repentence needs some feet like Josiah's
had--he delt with the evil.

Jeremiah 19:15
God would not have wiped them out if they had repented.
%
God told them the consequences of their sins, they "hardened their
necks" and refused to listen or repent, so God said he was going to do
what he said he would do, and they ignored or didn't believe him, and
then God eventually did it. We in the USA already have God's word, but
we don't follow it, and so he will do to us what he said also.

Jeremiah 20:8
Violence and spoil is from wickedness, a judgment from God, because the
land is full of wicked people, because no one deals with the wicked
swiftly, because no one defends the innocent, which is a consequence of
national sin.
%
This is judgment for sin, not the works of weapons.
%
Spoil: losing what is yours to someone to whom it does not rightfully
belong, and they take it by force or because you are so weak you cannot
resist: loss of money, property, rights, loss of children to
brainwashing (schools, TV, radio, culture destroys them because you
didn't keep the culture righteous, etc).

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(c) November 4, 1995, May 31, 1996 David C. Treibs. All rights reserved.

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